Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mahmoud Abbas' position on terror


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. Randykitty (talk) 15:18, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Mahmoud Abbas' position on terror

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Major NPOV concern about a living person. Also seems to be largely based on synthesis. Useful information should be merged into Mahmoud Abbas, but I think most of this has to go. Sammy1339 (talk) 21:28, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your feedback, although I'm sorry you nominated this article for deletion. This is my first Wikipedia article, and I tried to make it abide by Wikipedia guidelines.  In particular, I strove to show both sides of an old but ongoing controversy, citing reputable sources (mostly major news outlets) and video clips which were indicative of the two sides of the issue.  I considered merging the article into the main Mahmoud Abbas biography article, but thought that it would be a diversion from the main thrust of that article (which is already very long).  Perhaps a better idea would be to include a link from the main Mahmoud Abbas biography article to this article.

I would be happy to hear any additional feedback you have. User:DMG-Gremlin — Preceding undated comment added 23:28, 29 October 2014‎ (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Palestine-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:06, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Terrorism-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:06, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:06, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

New comment added Oct 30, 2014 by User:DMG-Gremlin: Sammy1339, Regarding the substance of your comments... 1 - re placing the essence of the article I wrote on the main Abbas page, I'd be happy to wait a few more days and see if anyone else has a response. My sense is that it should remain on a separate page for the reasons I wrote before, but I'd bow to consensus to the contrary.

2 - as you noted, politicians' views on terrorism is a contentious issue. It has been broadly discussed in many forums. I've been considering building up the present Abbas article to include additional politicians. If I were to do that, would you think that it should be its own page, because it is its own topic, or that an addition should be made to the main page for each politician?

3 - per your suggestion, I will edit the article to add a source that explicitly discusses Abbas's views in general or the controversy over them, so that it will not appear that the article collects disparate pieces of information in order to express something that hasn't been said elsewhere. Best, -- DMG-Gremlin (talk) 18:24, 30 October 2014 (UTC)User:DMG-Gremlin


 * Delete Doesn't stand up on it's own. I don't believe what appears to be an article about an opinion held by a person belongs on Wikipedia unless it is substantive independent coverage and I don't believe this passes that test. Move any useful material into the article on the person concerned. BritainD (talk) 08:37, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

I guess that's two votes (you and Sammy) for integrating relevant portions of this material into the main article. I'll wait a few more days and see if there's any additional feedback, and then edit as appropriate.
 * Hi BritainD,

If I may ask, you wrote above: "I don't believe what appears to be an article about an opinion held by a person belongs on Wikipedia unless it is substantive independent coverage and I don't believe this passes that test." What do you think of my idea #2 above, of editing the current page so that the topic is more general, namely the positions of various leaders / politicians regarding terror? It seems to be the case regarding any given leader that there is plenty that has been said by various researchers, but no one has yet assembled this into a single article. (Instead, a curious reader needs to hunt and peck to find the relevant info.)

Separately, for anyone who is reading this, Sammy1339 posted the following to me regarding this topic, and approved of my posting it here: ''I hope you won't take it as a criticism of your work - I think it's actually a fair and reasonable article and your selection of topics makes sense. The two problems with it are first of all that it is a very contentious topic that for the sake of fairness belongs in the main article where everyone can see and debate it; secondly, there's no source that explicitly discusses Abbas's views in general or the controversy over them. According to WP:SYNTH, editors are not allowed to collect disparate pieces of information in order to express something that hasn't been said elsewhere. However I think that some of what you wrote is valuable and could be incorporated into the Mahmoud Abbas page. --Sammy1339 (talk) 00:52, 30 October 2014 (UTC)''

DMG-Gremlin


 * Delete as POV fork of Mahmoud Abbas . Stuartyeates (talk) 07:19, 3 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Hi Stuartyeates. Although what Sammy1339 and BritainD wrote above seems reasonable (and I look forward to their response to my questions), I think that my article really isn't a POV fork.  As per the content forking article: "A point of view (POV) fork is a content fork deliberately created to avoid neutral point of view guidelines, often to avoid or highlight negative or positive viewpoints or facts."

Also, the content forking article says: "The creator of the new article may be sincerely convinced that there is so much information about a certain aspect of a subject that it justifies a separate article. Any daughter article that deals with opinions about the subject of parent article must include suitably-weighted positive and negative opinions, and/or rebuttals, if available, and the original article should contain a neutral summary of the split article."

As I think is clear from the Mahmoud Abbas' position on terror article, I did present both sides, giving a bunch of examples for each side. Practical next steps to address your concerns: (1) would it help if I added more examples on either side of the controversy? There are a large number of reputable sources showing both sides. (2) would it help if I edited the Mahmoud Abbas article to include a "neutral summary of the split article" as suggested on the content forking page? (3) would it help if (as I suggested above) I build up the present "Abbas position" article to include additional politicians. If I were to do that, would you think that it should be its own page, because it is its own topic, or that an addition should be made to the main page for each politician?

Thanks. DMG-Gremlin (talk) 15:04, 4 November 2014 (UTC)DMG-Gremlin
 * Delete Anything worthwhile can go in the main article. GoldenRing (talk) 05:46, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.