Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mahmudul Hasan Azhari


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. Seraphimblade Talk to me 01:51, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

Mahmudul Hasan Azhari
Previous AfDs for this article:


 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

This article demand Mahmudul Hasan Azhari is an Islamic scholar. But not fulfill WP:PROF2. Ref-1 is a promoted type of interview, others source are routine coverage. As a living people, this article does not pass the criteria of notability. DelwarHossain (talk) 18:52, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Advertising and Bangladesh. DelwarHossain (talk) 18:52, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Academics and educators, Islam,  and United Kingdom.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 19:22, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment. An article about this person (with a different title) was previously deleted following Articles for deletion/Shaykh Mahmudul Hasan. –&#8239;Joe (talk) 04:33, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * The present article contrasts with the deleted article. Here every work of his bears significant evidence. According to WP:RPDA this article has been recreat with aware of the issues on the previous page. But yes, a consensus must be reached. Ontor22 (talk) 13:27, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep. Your comment was correct as previous format of this article.(DelwarHossain) I have now added more details and new information, added his Recognition section, which expresses the notability according to the criteria mentioned in the Specific criteria section of WP:PROF2. From 2012-2014, he was selected in the British Bangladeshi Power & Inspiration 100 as a Religious Figure. He was also a lecturer in International Islamic University Chittagong and University Of Chittagong. Ontor22 (talk) 10:45, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * The previous delete decision was tactfully avoided by rewriting the article. Overall Does not appear to meet WP:NBIO or the WP:GNG DelwarHossain (talk) 11:32, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * This article was not created tactfully at all, rather the previous article contained details that did not reveal his notability, perhaps an editor's fault. See the previous deletion page, where he was called a journalist and that was incorrect information and there was some rubbish links. The present article is written with accurate information and significant references. Have you seen him being a scholar, imam of Essex and director of TV One Uk? A notable reference to his profession was on a UK government site. This article was initially created with the same name as the previous deleted page, the editor (Owais Al Qarni) was renamed it Shaykh Mahmudul Hasan to Mahmudul Hasan Azhari as the Orpahn template (WP:O) was added.[see] This article was reviewed by administator (Rosguill) after it was created. According to the last deleted article, the idea that WP:GNG does not fulfill this registration is wrong. Ontor22 (talk) 13:11, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Reviewing the sources now, I'm afraid I don't quite remember how I came to the conclusion that notability guidelines were met two weeks ago. The introduction to the first Dhaka Post piece has independent coverage that begins to establish a case for notability, but overall I don't think the current sources add up to GNG. signed,Rosguill talk 14:42, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Why did you only consider Dhaka Post's link as significant? Have you not seen them?
 * 1)This article by Echo News has direct coverage with his photo.[1] (Being an imam is clear). It will be more clear if you see this official source of Direct Essex. [1] There is also mention of becoming an imam, BBC News, Euronews.(Available in the reference list)
 * 2) See these 2 coverage from The Kaler Kantho.[1][2] (Being his Muslim scholar and director of TV One is clear) Also available in gov.uk site. [1]
 * Apart from that today I have also added the PDF links of British Bangladeshi Power & Inspiration 100.[1][2][3]
 * How do you think GNG does not meet? Ontor22 (talk) 16:44, 22 June 2023 (UTC)


 * KeepI have added strong news references while creating the page. I don't think GNG is imperfect. TV One's YouTube also bears witness. [1] Rayhan.author (talk) 17:01, 22 June 2023 (UTC) — Note to closing admin: Rayhan.author (talk • contribs) is the creator of the page that is the subject of this AfD.
 * Delete- Does not pass GNG or the notability guidelines for academics.Vinegarymass911 (talk) 12:38, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Relisting for another week given the additional work done on this article over the last two days. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 20:14, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep per Ontor22's decision. Other roles including academic are mentioned in independent source . GNG fulfills. ImMinhajUddinNadwi (talk) — ImMinhajUddinNadwi (talk&#32;• contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * I have concern. Looks like canvasing is goning on somewhere. --আফতাবুজ্জামান (talk) 15:50, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete Other than some passing mentions, routine news, I am not seeing any significant coverage. Ref 1 is interview (primary), 2 is passing mentions, 3-6 are routine news & aren't reliable, 7 is passing mentions, 8 is not reliable, 9-13 are passing mentions, 14-15 are parimary, 16-18 are not reliable & passing mentions. Fails WP:GNG, WP:academics. -- আফতাবুজ্জামান (talk) 15:49, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * It also feels like canvassing. Vinegarymass911, DelwarHossain and আফতাবুজ্জামান are in same decision everywhere. Ontor22 (talk) 16:27, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Interesting i didn’t say you are canvassing. When someone has almost zero contribution and inactive for long time but suddenly shows up in a afd, It's always suspicious. আফতাবুজ্জামান (talk) 08:26, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Note Article Updated. Added Academic Career[1}. Added Ref and work of Jibon Jiggasha Islamic Q&A show on NTV.Ontor22 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 15:01, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Unfortunatly thoses sources are primary, self-published or from vanity sites. আফতাবুজ্জামান (talk) 16:29, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Seriously! How do you think that two links I've added recently are self published or from vanity sites??[1][2] Ontor22 (talk) 17:00, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I do not consider bbpower-inspiration as a notable organisation, the list isn’t anything significant for which someone gets automatic notability on wikipedia. Otherwise with that logic, you should start creating articles about all the person included in that list. Also two lines in a 100 persons list isn’t significant coverage. আফতাবুজ্জামান (talk) 21:27, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Why are you only calculating bbpower-inspiration? This article is not based solely on bbpower! There are other links in the article. It is given, just to show a reference. Apart from that many Wikipedia articles count bbpower as a reference. Also, many editors consider it a reference even if you don't. [see this article] Ontor22 (talk) 05:01, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
 * See my first comment above. আফতাবুজ্জামান (talk) 15:06, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment More articles can be found on Wikipedia with same category, which are produced from more general sources. [|see] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ontor22 (talk • contribs) 15:12, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Note Added references from Janakantha and Daily Naya Diganta. [1] Ontor22 (talk) 08:26, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment This person is an old scholar. Has been in the media for many years. Has taught in 4 institutions. He did a Q&A show on popular channel NTV. Famous in several other countries including Bangladesh, London. More famous for being the Khatib of the Essex Jama Masjid, as the organization's work is to build Muslim communities in different countries. Every year takes the seat of chief guest of a mahfil called Tafseerul Quran in Bangladesh. Currently working in several media. Shakal TV, TV One UK and QnS London Academy for education. There are several fund organizations he leads those are helping disabled people constantly. His name has been mentioned in independent and reliable newspapers for a long time. WP:N was not lacking. Mafmes (talk) 10:21, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Please provide refs that aren't passing mentions, also significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject. আফতাবুজ্জামান (talk) 15:08, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Relisting comment: There's been a lot of back and forth between a handful of editors; but it would be beneficial to have yet-uninvolved editors weigh in on the quality of the available sources. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, signed,Rosguill talk 21:09, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment Added more references from Arab News, Daily Mail, Essex Chronicle, Daily Mirror. [see]   Ontor22 (talk) 05:37, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I am sorry but again those are just passing mentions. আফতাবুজ্জামান (talk) 08:28, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
 * See this article from Kaler Kantho. This reliable source also proves once again that he fulfills GNG Rayhan.author (talk) 13:11, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * This source basically a interview (primary source). It's not significant coverage. আফতাবুজ্জামান (talk) 15:23, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
 * You are doing something wrong somewhere. Gov.UK (1) called the site primary, but it is an independent source according to WP:INDY, which has begun to establish his notability. Also failed to call (this news) reliable rather it was reliable from Echo News. Again, this source from ABC News called to be passing, which was not passing because it was carrying a detailed identity rather than the slightest mention of him. Rayhan.author (talk) 19:57, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
 * It seems certain that your doubts will not go away. But I'll be able to help more, if you see this coverage (Muhammad (SAW):1001 Universal Appreciations and Interfaith Understanding and Peace), it's published by Muhammad A. Lais where shaykh hasan got coverage on p.104 [1]
 * WP:GNG doesn't violate at all, even though it was established at first. Rayhan.author (talk) 20:18, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Gov.UK profile is not SIGCOV. echo-news.co.uk is not reliable and also it's a passing mention. "Prime Minister Boris Johnson visits church where British MP David Amess was stabbed to death" has nothing to do with the article. আফতাবুজ্জামান (talk) 19:23, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The Gov.UK site itself states that it monitors company and individual information. It's not a profile at all, profiles are basically self-published or self-contained and Edit-worthy. But this is not it.
 * In my opinion, the gov.uk is SIGCOV that is carrying in WP:INDY Can you show me which page it says is not SIGCOV? Rayhan.author (talk) 20:23, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * REMINDED AGAIN, It seems certain that your doubts will not go away. But I'll be able to help more, if you see this coverage (Muhammad (SAW):1001 Universal Appreciations and Interfaith Understanding and Peace), it's published by Muhammad A. Lais where shaykh hasan got coverage on p.104 [1]
 * WP:GNG doesn't violate at all, even though it was established at first. Rayhan.author (talk) 20:28, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I feel like I have something to do even if you don't have anything to do with the ABC News. Why are you looking at the headline only, just read the news. I have provided the link and screenshot for your convenience. [1] Wrote and copied, ( Members of Southend's Muslim community expressed their shock and sadness at the loss of their local member of Parliament.
 * Sheik Mahmudul Hasan, an imam at the Essex Jamme Masjid Trust, said Sir David was "our friend, our guardian, our very close person".
 * Mr Hasan said the MP had been supportive both on an individual level and within the community.
 * As part of the Metropolitan Police's investigation into the killing – which it described as terrorism – officers were searching two locations in the London area.
 * Mr Hasan said Islam was a religion of peace and if that link was confirmed, "we would be ashamed and shocked as Muslims.") Rayhan.author (talk) 21:28, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Note Agreed with Rayhan.author's opinion, another reliable source was found from Kaler Kantho and added in article's Note section.[1] Ontor22 (talk) 14:51, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Note I need to do something. I have looked at the complete sources and discuss the source categories again. Ref:1 is primary, from Dhaka Post. Ref: 2, From Kaler Kantho and independent from the subject which is reliable. Ref: 3-5 are useless and not reliable. Ref: 6 is from the official site of Essex and It's primary. In ref: 7, his name is mentioned, passing from BBC. Ref: 8, The Echo, independent and reliable source. Ref: 9-10 Primary, from Euronews. In Ref:11, he bears an identity and is doubted to be independent or passing from ABC News. Ref: 12 is Passing, from Echo News. Ref: 13, from Kaler Kantho. Does not focus on the subject and coverd him, it is also an independent and reliable source. Ref: 18, His identity from the UK Government site is reliable and independent. Ref: 15, 17 and 18 are primary. 19 is not reliable. Ref: 16 & 20-22 of British Bangladeshi Power & Inspiration 100 Publications, where he got coverage. Undoubtedly, he is remarkable and notable person! Ontor22 (talk) 07:13, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I think you aggreed with me about what i said in my first comment. However i would like to also add that Ref 2 is a interview (primary). Ref 8 is a passing mentions. Ref 18 is a profile link from GOV.UK. Ref 16 & 20-22 is a two line coverage in a 100 persons list. আফতাবুজ্জামান (talk) 19:31, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I have some similarities with you, but not all. I can't think like you, sorry. See my comment more carefully, I have provided some independent and reliable sources. And I see, you are selectively saying passing source over my so-called independent sources, which I disagree with. Ref:16 & 20-22, Not only him but everyone is mentioned in 2 lines in BB Power. This is the rule of publishing their publication, perhaps you are unable to understand what this publication is about. Ontor22 (talk) 21:40, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Comment: A user has posted "Alhamdulillah by the infinite mercy of Allah, finally I was able to successfully create Shaykh Mahmudul Hasan Uncle's Wikipedia page by adding the correct reference in the second attempt. Brother Mufti Muhammad Minhaj Uddin was always there for cooperation and encouragement" along with a link to the article. In response to this, Muhammad Minhaj Uddin said "TABARAKALLAH, Really Great job, after so long effort and dedication finally...". However, this same person is credited on the subject's YouTube about section by the subject as writing the same text that appears in this article. This article is heavily cited on the page and also used to justify not deleting this article. The creator and main editor of the present subject's Wikipedia also attempted to create a page for Muhammad Minhaj Uddin, who is the author of anoter "reference" used to argue for the inclusion of this article, here.
 * Strong delete, preferably quickly. Going in, I believed I was going to say keep due to the fact that it's referenced. However, the references are at worst fraudulent, at medium completely unrelated without a passing mention, and at best only establish his existence. Is it unreliably established that he exists? Yes. Is he notable? From my searches, from looking at the subject's work, and from the references given, definitely not. The fact that some of the sources given are probably paid (e.g., note almost exactly the same text, but different author attributions) or otherwise influenced made my opinion stronger. I have additional reasons, which I think might be obvious to other users caring to check, to believe that some editors in this discussion may not be following policy to promote their viewpoint.  Chamaemelum  (  talk  ) 05:49, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Your comment make for a very nice question, thanks. You indicated his about section on YouTube, news sites also have this text or sentence. I will be more than happy to clarify one thing for you. First of all, Bangladeshi news sites do not directly interview a person, but search the person on online, copy the identity from social media or other media. As you must know, Bangladeshis are lazy and so are its journalists or editors. Not paid or promotional at all. Apart from Bangladeshis, do you call promotional from other country's source? If he was not notable, his name would not have been mentioned in publications or book . Ontor22 (talk) 06:30, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

YouTube: Shaykh Mahmudul Hasan is a renowned British-Bangladeshi Muslim scholar and media personality. He is One of the pioneers of the Preaching of Islam in Britain. Also he is well-known as a prolific writer-researcher and analyst.

Article: Shaykh Mahmudul Hasan is a British-Bangladeshi Muslim scholar. He is a Renowned media personality and One of the pioneers of the Preaching of Islam in Britain. He is well-known as a prolific writer-researcher and analyst too.

Youtube: He is currently the Grand Imam-Khatib and Principal of The Essex Jame Masjid and Academy in Southend-on-Sea, London. He and his comrades-in-arms were caused a stir by the purchasing of United Reform Church in 2006. Later he played a major role in the formation of the Islamic Complex there.

Article: Currently he is the Grand Imam-Khatib and Principal of this complex. Needless to say, He and his comrades-in-arms caused a stir by the purchasing of this Church. Later he played a major role in the formation of the Islamic Complex there.

YouTube: He is also Director of TV One UK, a popular satellite TV channel across Europe.

Article: The Grand Imam Shaykh mahmudul Hasan who is the Director of TV One UK (a popular satellite TV channel across Europe)...

YouTube: He traveled around the world with education, theology & socio-philosophy and the glorious message of Islam. Participated in international seminars and symposiums in different countries.

Article: He traveled around the world with education, theology & socio-philosophy and the glorious message of Islam. Participated in international seminars and symposiums in different countries.

YouTube: Nowadays Shaykh Mahmudul Hasan is popular author, religious speaker & Instructor; got followers across the world.

Article: Nowadays Shaykh Mahmudul Hasan is a popular author, renowned media personality, well-known Muslim scholar, religious speaker & famous Instructor; has got followers across the world.

Another article used as a reference and to justify the inclusion is this. Again, same exact text as the above, obviously either directly influenced or directly paid by the same persons trying to create this article. Dhaka Post is known to create fake news.

The first article is attributed to a different person than the YouTube description, and we know from the FaceBook post that the attributed writer of the YouTube description has also worked on this article. So who is the author of the article? It is the author of the FaceBook post, describing how he was trying to get this page created.

This isn't even all the conflicts of interest and editing close connections, but I have to stop writing somewhere.

The sources are fake, the subject is not notable. Since this page was already deleted once, perhaps some precaution needs to be put in place so it doesn't keep being created.  Chamaemelum  (  talk  ) 06:39, 5 July 2023 (UTC)


 * The matter seems interesting. I have known this man for many years, he is truly remarkable. However, maybe his fans are raising these doubts, in which Shaikh himself is being blamed. Ontor22 (talk) 07:31, 5 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Note Articles are being truncated, with some including the BBC being called poor sources.1 Looks like I have to get involved.Ontor22 (talk) 07:37, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * No. Poor sourcing. That is, the BBC article that mentions Hasan in passing has no relevance to the preceding text which says "he is the imam and Principal of Essex Jamme Masjid in Southend-on-Sea, London".  Chamaemelum  (  talk  ) 07:46, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Note' Confusing readers with misinformation, I see Chamaemelum made a lot of changes and cuts. First of all, this article is being said that he is a Bangladeshi Imam, which is wrong information. He was born in Bangladesh but he is now a British. After this line of academic career (He also serves as a chief director of Olama kollan parishad, Chittagong.) there is a reference of qns Academy but there is no mention of Olama Kollanin qns link. Apart from the confusing source of dhaka post and Kaler Kantho, there existed a few reliable sources of the Kaler Kantho and other, which have been tactfully removed. I need to edit it soon. Looks like he was sent for the edi . Ontor22 (talk) 09:20, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Kaler Kantho is very unreliable. Akin to a blog post. I did not write that he is Bangladeshi, but someone can be Bangladeshi while living in Britain.  Chamaemelum  (  talk  ) 09:25, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I think, you didn't focus. Kaler Kantho isn't a blog site. It is proven that have adopted a strategy, why did you remove the reliable sources and keep (thedailyshangu.com.,jagoronsangbad.com) them? Which are not wearing in any reliability. Are you trying to prove that this article now free from strong sources and is weak, bogus. Ontor22 (talk) 09:36, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I removed 1. references that are are associated with an obvious COI, and 2. references that did not support the preceding text. If I kept a source, it is because it was both not associated with a very obvious COI (still possible, though) and had at least some relevance to the preceding text.  Chamaemelum  (  talk  ) 09:40, 5 July 2023 (UTC)


 * If anyone is not totally convinced about the COI, I have more blatant proof that I'm hesitant to post because it involves a real name.  Chamaemelum  (  talk  ) 10:00, 5 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Note Information about his YouTube match or social media, which was suspected to be promotional(COI), has been removed. He is not a Bangladeshi imam but a British imam,If he wasn't British he wouldn't be mentioned on the gov.uk site, because the site doesn't cover anyone from overseas. Strategically removed, sources, book section restored. He was not even held in recognition, which alos has been revived. Ontor22 (talk) 10:20, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete - COI aside (an issue that can be addressed at WP:COIN), subject fails WP:ANYBIO. I have looked at the references mentioned throughout this discussion and there is not enough to show how he meets notability guidelines under any criteria. --CNMall41 (talk) 16:40, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:BLP and also WP:V, to wit, [i]f no reliable, independent sources can be found on a topic, Wikipedia should not have an article on it. Spot checking refs reveals a very high level of nonsense here, such that I would be reluctant to trust any but the most conclusively reliable of sources. (E.g. this biographic citation to qowmipedia purports to be derived from a published book, মিম্বারের ধ্বনি (Voices of the Pulpit). Encouraging! But actually that book is authored by the article subject himself. And so on.) The problem with this level of promotional chaff is that as a practical matter, it results in even more and better sources being needed in order to be confident that we can provide a verifiably accurate article. And such sources do not seem to be on offer here. -- Visviva (talk) 00:17, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment Cropping will make all articles look like this. Hope very cunning steps have been taken to delete it. Ontor22 (talk) 03:45, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * , please be aware of WP:OWN. I believe you have made your contention several times already. --CNMall41 (talk) 17:30, 7 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Note Someone removed the AfD tag.  Chamaemelum  (  talk  ) 00:56, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * With this being the second AfD and the content you described, would suggest a potential WP:SALT to avoid potential recreation. --CNMall41 (talk) 17:31, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree with preventing them from remaking this page.  Chamaemelum  (  talk  ) 23:58, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per above. Okoslavia (talk) 15:16, 10 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Intensity It has created a lot of complications. Comments are intensely hostile. Wrong idea about the person, editing or deleting without checking the source. WP:VER is very lacking. An admin is essential this time soon! Mafmes (talk) 15:39, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete I examined the 34 sources that are or were cited in the article and/or have been discussed here. Two URLs would not load for me, but there's nothing about them that suggests that the websites are reliable - that they have any reputation for accuracy or fact checking. There is a book, by a non-notable author from a non-notable and obscure publisher, not held by any WorldCat library, that appears to be a vanity publication. It has two pages about the subject, but also acknowledges him for his assistance in preparing the book, so it isn't clear how independent it is. The remaining 31 are a hopeless mishmash of passing mentions, non-independent (interviews, employer website), editorials (not reliable for facts), user-generated, indiscriminate, and don't mention him at all sources. Not a single one counts towards demonstrating notability. --Worldbruce (talk) 17:27, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
 * From the keep side there has been WP:BOMBARDMENT, WP:BLUDGEON, and removal of the AfD tag. When multiple editors with few contributions outside this AfD showed up to !vote keep, it was suggested that canvassing/meatpuppetry was going on, which was followed by unfounded counter accusations against experienced editors. There was also the offensive statement "Bangladeshis are lazy". Wikipedia deleted this topic under the title Shaykh Mahmudul Hasan just a year ago. Plainly there is a strong desire from some editors to push this subject into the encyclopedia. Alas, they have no grasp of Wikipedia's sourcing or inclusion policies. The subject has been a huge time sink. So that the community doesn't go through this again, I recommend salting both titles. --Worldbruce (talk) 17:28, 10 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Comment Oh I've been waiting for another editor for so long, today it's visible. Excellent review. since points to a community, so I've also mentioned some of its users, including DelwarHossain, who provided the afd. Another member of their community appeared today. Ontor22 (talk) 01:41, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
 * , I am not sure I fully understand your comment. Are you requesting other people come here to vote? --CNMall41 (talk) 04:49, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @CNMall41 What I am guessing, Ontor is taunting Wordbruce for their delete vote and accusing them from the party of the nominator. I may be wrong. @Ontor22 See IDL. Okoslavia (talk) 05:19, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I mean the community. see my previous comment of 23 June, 16:27. Ontor22 (talk) 05:44, 11 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete and Salt No indication of being notable. Looked at the first block of references. Fails WP:BIO. No real WP:SECONDARY coverage. I vaguelly remember looking at this in the past, possibly recreated under a slightly different name.   scope_creep Talk  11:38, 11 July 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.