Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mandy (Jonas Brothers song)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   redirect to Jonas Brothers. ( X! ·  talk )  · @012  · 23:16, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Mandy (Jonas Brothers song)

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With no chart performance or covers, it fails WP:MUSIC, and with no significant media coverage, it also fails WP:GNG. Notability is not inherited. --Pokerdance (talk/contribs) 20:55, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions.  -- TexasAndroid (talk) 00:48, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

With all due respect, I'm afraid I disagree. While I do agree in the sense that, indeed, notability is not "inherited", neither does notability create itself. Notability can often occur retroactively with regard to works that a person had done earlier in his or her career that did not become recognised until later on when the person had become famous for something else. A good example is Tennessee Williams, whose first major success was "The Glass Menagerie" in 1945; after this, he was a household name. However, he wrote quite a wealth of plays prior to this, with little success. Yet, now that Mr. Williams is an American literary legend, almost all of his works, obscure or well known, have an article devoted to them. For instance, two of Williams' early plays, "Fugitive Kind" (1937) and "Not About Nightingales" (1938) were not at all popular when first released, and were not even produced on stage for many years. To my knowledge, "Fugitive Kind" has still never been performed on any notable stage to this day. Yet they have articles devoted to them. Why? Because Mr. Williams is so famous that it is appropriate for even his lesser works to still have an area where they may be sought out and researched. Compared with the article in question, this Jonas Brothers song seems far more notable. Like Tennessee Williams and many other people, the Jonas Brothers enjoyed success after their second album's release, and thus the first one is relatively obscure. But since they are such a global phenomenon, it is more than appropriate to have an article devoted to individual songs even on this first album, such as "Mandy". Indeed, it makes more sense; one of Wikipedia's main strengths is that it is a resource people can turn to when they need information about a topic that may not be available elsewhere, such as information about this song. Indeed, it is for precisely this reason that I found the article in the first place. I heard it, wanted to read more about it, could not find much about it on most websites, went to Wikipedia, and voila! This is Wikipedia's strongsuit, and it seems counterproductive to take articles such as this down, especially when I have already mentioned how a precedent has been set with such articles as those about obscure Tennessee Williams plays which are nonetheless deemed worthy of articles. Besides, it is not as though this song were that obscure; it was released as a single, and its music video on YouTube has had over 3,300,000 plays to-date! If that is considered obscure, then I certainly can't fathom what you consider constitutes "notable". --R.h.c.afounder1 (talk/contribs) —Preceding undated comment added 05:38, 10 July 2009 (UTC).
 * Well, if you don't know how Wikipedia deems a song notable, maybe you could start here.   Esradekan Gibb    "Klat" 09:07, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
 * In additon, you'll probably also want to check out Wikipedia's general notability guidelines. [[User:Rlendog|Rlendog (talk) 14:57, 16 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Redirect to Jonas Brothers Unless the song gets rereleased and charts, or someone covers it and it becomes notable, its not notable on its own. Put any relevant info in Jonas Brothers article, not that there's much info other than "It didn't chart" Dylanfromthenorth (talk) 13:36, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Perhaps it should be redirected to It's About Time (Jonas Brothers album) instead? Pokerdance (talk/contribs) 20:57, 11 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete as an unlikely redirect term, fails notability per WP:MUSIC. No awards, no chart, no covers, no WP:RS.   Esradekan Gibb    "Klat" 08:59, 12 July 2009 (UTC)


 * For the record, while it may not have been a significant cover version, this song was in fact covered by The Hit Crew and is available for purchase on Itunes. Two karaoke versions of the song are also available on Itunes. By the way, I took a look at the notability requirements for albums and songs. According to the guide, it says that "notability aside, a separate article on a song is only appropriate when there is enough verifiable material to warrant a reasonably detailed article." Say what you will about this song's notability, but it is irrefutable to say that there is not enough information about it. Indeed, it is much longer and more informative than many article stubs I have seen. --R.h.c.afounder1 (talk/contribs)
 * Exactly: verifiable material. There is only one reference in this article, and it's to confirm the release date. There is barely any sourced information, and thus this article is not notable.


 * And The Hit Crew are not notable enough artists. The criteria involves two independent, notable artists recording the song. The Jonas Brothers are the only notable group to do so. Pokerdance (talk/contribs) 04:35, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment - What is the basis for stating that "The Hit Crew are not notable enough artists"? They are notable enough to have a Wikipedia article.  I am not aware of any guidelines requiring more notability (how much more?) for a cover band under WP:NSONGS than to have a Wikipedia article altogether. Rlendog (talk) 15:07, 16 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Redirect - after merging the first paragraph with Jonas Brothers. I don't think this article quite meets WP:NSONGS, even counting The Hit Crew cover, since the guideline mentions being recorded by "several" notable bands.  And I am not sure that "two" necessarily qualifies as "several".  Three definitely, but with two I'd want to see at least some other indication of notability, and I don't.  Maybe that is the Jonas Brothers' first single, but that can be addressed within their own article.  The second paragraph of the article would seem worth merging too if reliable sources can be added for it.  But if multiple reliable sources are added for that, then this article should be kept under WP:N.  As for the title, that should not be any problem from a redirect perspective.  The title is consistent with WP:DAB and is the title any experience Wikipedian would look under for this song if they realized that there are several popular songs by the same name. Rlendog (talk) 15:33, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.