Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mansuria Kung Fu


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Sarahj2107 (talk) 08:27, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

Mansuria Kung Fu

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Non-notable martial art. The article has no significant independent coverage or any claims of notability. Existing does not make it notable. Fails the GNG and the notability for martial arts styles at WP:MANOTE. Mdtemp (talk) 17:34, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. Peter Rehse (talk) 19:40, 16 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete The only non-primary source is lulu press which is no better.  There is nothing to indicate that the providence is not made up (secret Ming bodyguards).Peter Rehse (talk) 20:48, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Hello, I created this page as a french specialist of this art, and especially because Mansuria Kung Fu is a very popular Chinese martial arts in India and is becoming popular in France (e.g. M. Daffy became France vice-champion of Kung fu in his category ). In fact, I want to improve the page and add more informations on this art. Note that, the Grand Master R. Shekhar (9th Dan, died in 2014) appeared in the film Mugamoodi, and that the french Master (M. Derosiere) recently participated to a short film . To be honest it is difficult to find english references on this martial arts, but I can share french references on Mansuria Kung Fu (journal articles are available). Please notice that references in Tamil are also available but I don't know Tamil so I am not able to find these references. Best regards. Buffy42 (talk) 11:50, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
 * You need to show significant coverage of this martial art, not just passing mentions. I would also suggest you look at the notability criteria for martial arts styles at WP:MANOTE. Papaursa (talk) 23:08, 18 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your answer, in the next few days, I will work on the article and provide some references to justify the notability of this martial art. Best regards. Buffy42 (talk) 08:58, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete at best for now as there's nothing particularly suggestive of the applicable notability here. SwisterTwister   talk  19:46, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete The article has no references that show significant independent coverage nor is there anything to show the art is notable as defined at WP:MANOTE. There's an unsupported claim of it being a secret martial art since the Ming Dynasty, but it's hard to take that seriously.  Of the two additional sources added by Buffy42, one doesn't even mention the art and the other is about a student finishing second in a junior weapons division at a French wushu tournament.  That's a passing mention and does nothing to show this style is notable. Papaursa (talk) 01:47, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
 * For information the second reference does mention the art (you can check the video if you understand french, the main actor is the french Master and international representative of the art ). Buffy42 (talk) 13:37, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but I have to rely on Google translations for French and makes the video useless to me. Having someone who practices a style be in a movie is, at most, a passing mention and does not make that style notable.  I'll admit I also find it curious that this "Chinese" style seems to be practiced and headed by instructors in India and France.  There don't seem to be any independent sources that actually talk about the art in any depth. Papaursa (talk) 22:50, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Nakon  02:13, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep It is a chinese martial arts but more notable in India and France due to his modern history. Indeed, an Indian R. Shekhar came in Hong-Kong and learnt this chinese martial art under the supervision of another Master known as Kalai Achnony Lee. Then R. Shekhar came back in India where he became the last Grand Master of this style (he died in 2014). In India he was very popular and created the international federation of Mansuria Kung Fu. He trained more than 15000 black belt and 40000 students including stuntmen and actor of Bollywood (for example Jiiva) (and also some politicians). It is one of the most notable martial art in India and especially in Tamil Nadu. The french Master, M. Derosière came in India in the international school of the Grand Master where he learnt Mansuria Kung Fu under the direct supervision of the Grand Master. Master Derosière teaches Mansuria Kung Fu in France and has recently opened an international school in France. That's why this style is especially known in France and India. That's also why I would like to put this style on the english version of wikipedia (I would like to translate a part of the french article). Best. Buffy42 (talk) 15:12, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
 * If one teacher trained more than 15,000 black belts than we should be able to find lots of mentions of this art. That number is awfully high (and unsupported) as is the 40,000 students. Almost half of the students earn black belts? Secret martial arts going back hundreds of years that suddenly exist require proof and there's none. It sounds more like a self-created martial art and there's still no significant independent coverage of it.Mdtemp (talk) 17:53, 25 May 2016 (UTC)>
 * Besides unsourced claims and a lack of significant independent coverage, there is also an obvious COI. Papaursa (talk) 21:29, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I understand your point of view. It's clearly difficult to find references on this arts. I imagine it is not sufficient for you, but you can easily find the existence of Mansuria (or Manchuria) Kung Fu on Facebook (there are pages about the international schools in India and France, and also about the Grand Master). Moreover, there is a national federation of Mansuria Kung Fu in France, and, to the best of my knowledge, an international federation in India. The lack of information is simply due to the fact that in India they mainly communicate orally.Buffy42 (talk) 14:59, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
 * The fact that it exists is not enough to make it notable (see WP:ENN). I don't know the notability criteria at the French wikipedia, but if you're going to edit on the English one I recommend reading WP:N and WP:RS to better understand the notability criteria here. Papaursa (talk) 15:02, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Delete, no significant independent coverage here. claims of number of students are dubious. InsertCleverPhraseHere  00:39, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
 * If you are able to understand Tamil you can check the following video to discover the Grand Master Shekhar and the French Master . Buffy42 (talk) 09:01, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
 * There is also a BBC reportage available Buffy42 (talk) 09:05, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Actually that video is not available due to copyright issues. Papaursa (talk) 15:02, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Weird I can watch it... Buffy42 (talk) 17:14, 30 May 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.