Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Manuel Rivera Jr.


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Arguments based on notability policies are the persuasive ones and have been weighted accordingly. Redirect can be established at editor discretion. Daniel (talk) 04:33, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Manuel Rivera Jr.

 * – ( View AfD View log )

Fails WP:GNG. Being the first person of a given descent to die during a war does not grant notability. Lettlerhello • contribs 18:06, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Lettlerhello • contribs 18:06, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Lettlerhello • contribs 18:06, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Aviation-related deletion discussions. Lettlerhello • contribs 18:06, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Puerto Rico-related deletion discussions. Lettlerhello • contribs 18:06, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Lettlerhello • contribs 18:06, 11 January 2021 (UTC)


 * OPPOSE/Keep - Notable, seems like it meets the wiki General Notability Guidelines (WP:GNP), due to being covered in multiple independent sources, including the LA Times, NYTimes, NY Daily News, multiple military articles of tribute, and by the US Congress. If/when people have schools and public places named after them, it seems like being able to read the background for their notoriety is a great thing that wiki can offer to the people. Final point of interest, Operation Desert Storm was a very brief air-campaign, and for nearly a decade Captain Rivera was believed to have been the first US servicemember death, albeit non-hostile. If my understanding is correct that distinction was not revised for nearly 20 years, in August 2009, at which time Scott Speicher's death on Jan. 17, 1991 was determined as the first US casualty, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Speicher [FYI this comment has been edited multiple times by klgeels].
 * I have no clue what you're trying to say here, much less why IPs that have never made an edit before today can vote on AFDs. Lettlerhello • contribs 18:18, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
 * per Wikipedia standards, your reply can be construed as "personal attack". If you wish to understand, be specific in your request for clarification. If you do not wish to understand, an impersonal posture would be indicated by refraining from comment.
 * I agree with User:Lettler an IP that has never edited before comes to this page to make comments, this screams WP:SOCK/WP:MEAT. Mztourist (talk) 04:12, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm also confused as to why a IP that has only made edits yesterday understands what WP:NPA is. I agree with Mztourist, probably some sort of sock here. Lettlerhello • contribs 15:10, 16 January 2021 (UTC)


 * I am not a socket-puppet, merely confining my effort to commenting on this topic, lacking interest in developing a notorious online personality dedicated to minimizing others.    — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:C8B0:7410:D06B:3D25:406:C0EE (talk) 17:03, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Redirect to List of Puerto Rican military personnel, where he is mentioned. His service is appreciated, but Wikipedia is not a memorial, and I don't see WP:GNG, WP:NPERSON, or WP:SOLDIER being met here. - The Bushranger One ping only 18:10, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
 * A link to those standards would be helpful.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:C8B0:7410:9DA6:B5AD:5020:ECDF (talk) 20:28, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete the first person of x descent to die in y conflict is not a sign of notability.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:08, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 19:33, 11 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep - He was a real hero. Tony the Marine (talk) 02:33, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Concur. Keep.
 * Any actual Wikipedia guidelines to support this? Lettlerhello • contribs 18:27, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
 * While true, that is not a reason to have an article on Wikipedia. Your !vote basically amounts to WP:ILIKEHIM; but WP:NOTMEMORIAL. - The Bushranger One ping only 02:28, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Your objection remains unclear. If I look at the guidance for Notability, per Wikipedia per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_(people): EXCERPT: People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published[4] secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other,[5] and independent of the subject.END OF EXCERPT List of Independent sources for Service and Sacrifice of Captain Manuel Rivera, Jr: "Style"; New York Times; by: Nadine Brozan; August 11, 1992;  LA Times Staff Writers (December 17, 2002). "More Than A Few Good Men". Los Angeles Times;  "Marine Has Landed At Aviation School"; New York Daily News; by: Sharline Chiang; March 22, 1995
 * Delete fails WP:SOLDIER and WP:GNG. Mztourist (talk) 02:59, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom, NOTMEMORIAL and SOLDIER. We'd have to include each first casualty from state X as well to be consistent. Also, he died during a training mission, not in combat. Clarityfiend (talk) 07:19, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Deleted for clarity — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:C8B0:7410:3876:2CA8:6771:A3A5 (talk) 19:26, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
 * That doesn't mean he passes WP:GNG. Lettlerhello • contribs 15:01, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete not notable by rank, decoration or anything else I can think of. Doesn’t meet GNG. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 11:27, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Edited for clarity: His exceptional contribution has been acknowledged by the US government and his community in NY. That seems like ample justification for all the people to whom wikipedia belongs. Klgeels (talk) 21:48, 18 January 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:C8B0:7410:3876:2CA8:6771:A3A5 (talk) 19:33, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
 * That doesn't mean he passes WP:GNG. Lettlerhello • contribs 15:08, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
 * which limits the interpretation of "notable" to those standards conferred by the US Military The standards conferred by the US military are irrelevant. Wikipedia's standards are the relevant ones. And he, sadly but factually, does not meet those standards. - The Bushranger One ping only 02:28, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete per Peacemaker67 and others. Intothatdarkness 20:07, 15 January 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.