Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Marcel Hillaire


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. The coverage cited by BusterD and Cyphoidbomb seems sufficent to show that the subject satisfies WP:GNG. Deor (talk) 20:43, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Marcel Hillaire

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Recently added article about a person who fails WP:NACTOR. Individual doesn't have any significant roles as required by NACTOR, only bit parts in several series. Neither does he have a large fan base and does not seem to have made "unique, prolific or innovative contributions to a field of entertainment."  Aussie Legend  ( ✉ ) 10:56, 3 August 2014 (UTC)


 * REPLY: He was a regular presence on 1960s TV, instantly recognizable by his appearance and accent, who enriched several beloved shows with large fan bases. No one could see him without thinking "Oh yeah, THAT guy!" His contribution to entertainment was certainly unique, if not prolific or innovative.


 * I would also argue that his roles on TV were "significant", not merely "bit parts". He played the Junkman in the LOST IN SPACE episode "Junkyard of Space", and the principal villain in another episode (in which he nearly strangled Doctor Smith with a cat's cradle string); also the principal villain in his GET SMART episode.  These are not "bit parts".  Goblinshark17 (talk) 18:04, 3 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Being a "regular presence" does not establish notability. The roles have to be significant, which usually means a starring role. Matthew Timmons appeared in 50 of the 71 episodes of The Suite Life on Deck but is considered to be non-notable because he was only a recurring character. Hillaire's roles in Lost in Space were two separate characters in 2 episodes, out of 83 episodes in the series. That can't be considered significant. -- Aussie Legend  ( ✉ ) 05:18, 4 August 2014 (UTC)


 * "The Suite Life on Deck"?? Never heard of it.  Certainly not a big-fan-base show like GET SMART or LOST IN SPACE.  Goblinshark17 (talk) 18:29, 4 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Given that it was a very popular children's TV series I'm surprised you haven't heard of it but I'm sure more people watched Matthew Timmons than saw Marcel Hillaire. -- Aussie Legend  ( ✉ ) 18:44, 4 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Was "The Suite Life on Deck" Matthew Timmons' only gig? Marcel Hillaire guest starred on several-to-many TV shows plus movies plus Broadway.  Besides, TSLoD is a relatively recent thing; Marcel Hillaire's shows are enduring classics.  Goblinshark17 (talk) 05:53, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
 * No, Timmons has appeared in other series. As I've pointed out below, notability is not inherited meaning that while the works in which Hillaire appeared might be "enduring classics", he is not notable simply because he appeared in a notable production. -- Aussie Legend  ( ✉ ) 11:54, 20 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:15, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:16, 4 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica1000 01:35, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

 
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica1000 04:20, 18 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Weak keep. While he didn't get much, if any, press, he is a very recognizable face with a significant body of work (e.g. the original Broadway production of Silk Stockings, Sabrina), enough for me to say WP:IAR. Clarityfiend (talk) 01:24, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
 * WP:NACTOR isn't about coverage. It has three criteria for notability, none of which are met by this person, so he doesn't meet the requirements of WP:NACTOR or WP:GNG. Notability is not inherited meaning that while the works in which he appeared might be notable, he is not based on all of our policies and guidelines and standing by WP:IAR can't be supported. -- Aussie Legend  ( ✉ ) 09:15, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete. Fails WP:NACTOR and WP:GNG. Too bad that body of work doesn't pass. —  Wylie pedia  14:47, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep Meets GNG. Looking through Newspapers.com, I see 294 matches, some mere mentions, but a number about a traveling one-man show he did for several years in the late fifties, early sixties called "The Smile of France", which gets several columns directly detailing the subject: "Smile of France Scheduled by CBC" Tri-City Herald (Pasco, WA, 14 April 1960); "Marcel Hillaire's Smile of France To Appear at ISTC", The Indiana Gazette (Indiana, PA 19 October 1959); "Marcel Hillaire, French Actor, At College Today", The Terre Haute Star (Terre Haute, IN, 6 August 1958); "French '1-Man Theater' Slated to Present Variety Act at ASC", Arizone Republic (Phoenix, AZ 18 February 1961). There are many more. While I'll confess all these articles are behind a paywall, sufficient reliable secondary sources to warrant inclusion. I'll apply some of these today as I get more time. BusterD (talk) 14:58, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment The subject is also covered at some length by Russell Martin in his book Beethoven's Hair: An Extraordinary Historical Odyssey and a Scientific Mystery Solved, where Hillaire's family (and Hillaire himself) is involved in possessing an important biological sample which came to be medically analyzed to discover several previously unknown facts about the famous composer. A preview of this book is available via GoogleBooks. BusterD (talk) 16:07, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
 * As I've done my reading today, I'm struck by the many differences between the subject's history, as reflected in the HighBeam and Beethoven's Hair material, and the subject's personal testimony of his history, as stated in the newspaper articles I linked above. Based on Russell Martin's research, it appears the subject was born Erwin Hiller; he was a German native of Cologne and his father was a music critic. Based on the 'Smile of France' material, Hillaire was born in Paris, was brought up in his parent's traveling circus, worked at the Folies Bergère, and was mentored in acting by Louis Jouvet. It appears that virtually every word he told to local newspaper reporters was part of his performance, an adopted French accent and character, and was a portrayal, not an accurate account. IMHO, this means that although much of the the material I've linked above is surely fiction those links still count towards his notability. My reservations about Hillaire/Hiller are not original synthesis, Russell Martin says as much on page 290 of his book. As a frequent spinner of tales, it appears Hillaire is not particularly trustworthy when speaking of himself. BusterD (talk) 17:56, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep With continued respect for my colleague Aussie, Hillaire seems notable to me. He didn't only do bit roles and he was obviously in a ton of shit. I found a few Google newspaper hits on him, where his roles were spoken of favorably. (That alone doesn't cut it, I know), but the roles were significant enough to mention. It looks as though he had a significant supporting role in Take the Money and Run. He was the lead in The Adventures of the Kind Mr. Smith He played a lip-reading detective on 77 Sunset Strip (that sounds like an important role for an episode). Hillaire was also discussed in Mysteries of Beethoven's Hair. And if there are other meatier newspaper references as indicated by BusterD, then I think Hillaire should be kept. (Note: I had an edit conflict with Buster and wrote the above before I saw his mention of Beethoven's Hair.) Cyphoidbomb (talk) 16:31, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.