Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/March, 2013 European snowstorms


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. While the numbers are close, those asserting notability here provide conflicting suggestions, and many of them are not policy based. The suggestion to merge, when looked at closely, is actually a suggestion to write a totally different article, most likely about the whole season. No one has established that there is actually a named event (March 2013 European snowstorms) that exists as a discrete, specific, encyclopedic topic. However, it is certainly plausible that the underlying information would be useful for some sort of "season" article; as such, I'm happy to userfy the article for anyone who wants to work on that (though, as implied by some of the editors, it may be too soon to write that, as we may lack the perspective needed to get away from WP:NOTNEWS). Qwyrxian (talk) 10:41, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

March, 2013 European snowstorms

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Not a notable event. ♦ Tentinator ♦ 13:25, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Naturally, Keep, since I believe this (supposedly related, I'm not a meteorologist) chain of snowstorms in Europe is notable enough because of the very high level of media portrayal, and the high level of disruption caused (some fatalities, thousands of cars stranded on several kilometers of highways, declaration of state of emergency, the involvement of military and special forces, involvement of charity organisations, and other very *uncommon* events happening because of the snowfall). I presume the nominator lives in the US, and thus it might be possible he/she views these weather and related event(s) as not notable enough compared to the snowstorms the States might get. Although here in Europe (at least here in Hungary) the previous days were far from everyday, and some reliable sources stated that "this weather situation was unprecedented" (having such a disrupting snowstorm in March is highly odd in Hungary). The government had resorted to order military to use their cargo trucks and tracked vehicles to assist rescuing motorists stuck in high snow sometimes longer than 24 hours. Reliable sources can support this. The weather and the situation what the affected - at least the hungarian, as far as I can cite sources - population experienced isn't something that they will forget in a week or two. Thus, it is notable in an encyclopedic manner.

Reliable and international sources supporting the above:


 * http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20130315/eu-europe-snow/


 * http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21806043


 * http://metronews.ca/news/world/596652/hungary-snowstorm-strands-thousands-in-their-cars/


 * http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/15/17327572-winter-storm-strands-thousands-of-motorists-overnight-in-eastern-europe


 * http://uk.news.yahoo.com/winter-snowstorm-batters-northwest-europe-125728172.html


 * http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/03/15/weather-europe-idUKL6N0C7FNJ20130315


 * http://rt.com/news/snow-europe-hungary-tanks-333/


 * http://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/major-snowstorm-to-slam-russia/8137504


 * http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/22925/53/


 * http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/international/europe/2013/03/hungary_snowstorm_strands_thousands_in_their_cars

Hungarian (several more would be citable):


 * http://index.hu/belfold/2013/03/16/katasztrofa_minden_fronton/

The Hungarian Wikipedia have an article on the hungarian facet of the situation:


 * http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013._m%C3%A1rciusi_katasztr%C3%B3fahelyzet_Magyarorsz%C3%A1gon

The English Wikinews have an article about the western aspect of the situation:


 * http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Heavy_snow_causes_disruption_across_northwestern_Europe

-Rev L. Snowfox (talk) 14:02, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Europe-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:00, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:00, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of News-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:00, 17 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Withholding judgment for now, but most of those links are ordinary news reports, which doesn't make them notable. In the least the scope needs to be expanded to cover a full season, not just this month, which is only barely half-way over. I realize there's a few other versions of articles like this lurking around, but many of them would probably get the same reception this one is going to get. An exception would be articles that cover wide geography and time-frames, like North American blizzard of 1999 (I'm sure there are some historic ones that would qualify too). These weather articles are tricky; wider scope (and the article's quite meager as is) helps. Shadowjams (talk) 02:18, 19 March 2013 (UTC)


 * There has been continued snowfall across the United Kingdom over the past few weeks. Scotland has been hit particularly. Additionally, today there has been widespread snow across the UK which is unusual for this time of the year. Northern Ireland has had blackouts to 40,000 homes also. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21885817 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brefardan (talk • contribs) 14:40, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete - Most of these are just ordinary news reports. It fails WP:GNG. Inks.LWC (talk) 21:16, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete - per Inks.LWC and the fact that the article is empty and has been that way for 4 days. United States Man (talk) 01:09, 23 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep, but merge. There's probably enough notable stuff to write an overview article for this winter, say "Winter 2012-2013 in Europe" into which this could be easily incorporated. Snow in the UK is certainly unusual for late March, and there is an economic aspect to the story in that the adverse weather is being partly blamed for the continued depressed state of the British economy. Paul MacDermott (talk) 19:15, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep and rename/merge per Paul MacD. Useful information, can combine with other meteorology from the season.  Systemic bias: The topic is just as notable as, say, individual nor'easters in the US and Canada (all of which we cover and have articles for because weather geeks from that part of the world frequent WP).  This topic clearly needs work over time, but there's no need to delete it now simply because it hasn't matured.   –  SJ  +  02:21, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep, but rename, possibly to 2013 European cold wave. The weather in Europe is extraordinary for March, see for example cold weather alerts in UK and a report from Kiev, Ukraine. Brandmeistertalk  21:54, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment - Then whey keep the page? 3/4 refs are about one incident, not the overall cold wave.  It's a completely separate topic. Inks.LWC (talk) 00:31, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The article just should be rewritten, not deleted I think (unless an article about the same topic already exists). Brandmeistertalk  09:52, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

(RMS reactions      http://www.reactionsnet.com/RMS.aspx Alert Worldwide     http://alert.air-worldwide.com/default.aspx GAB Robins          http://www.gabrobins.co.uk/surge-status.aspx Eqecat catwatch    http://www.eqecat.com/catwatch/).Lacunae (talk) 16:26, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:NOTNEWSPAPER there is no indication that this weather event will have enduring notability. J04n(talk page) 11:21, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep admittedly the article is rather thin at present and needs work. I like the European aspect to the article, and it probably could be widened to discuss the winter in the European region. Snowiest winter in 100 years in Moscow, on course for coldest march in the UK for 50 years. Snowfall leaving thousands without electricity across Scotland and Northern Ireland, the weather has also caused sporting event cancellations (international soccer and horse racing) and travel disruption. Military assistance called upon in Ukraine and Hungary. I tend to look at the catastrophe modellers and insurance sites for a guide on notability, so far only GAB Robins have issued a notice on the situation, however most of these groups tend to focus on insured losses in Western Europe.
 * Keep It's the coldest March in the UK in 50 years, there have been massive amounts of snowfall (12 feet drifts "up north"), there are thousands still without power days after the main snowfall, thousands of livestock have perished and where I am it's the latest lying snow since the 1980s. All of these are notable points and the article is worth keeping. Note that I haven't even touched on mainland Europe, but I'm sure it's been just as notable over there. Retron (talk) 04:17, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.