Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Marcus D


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. J04n(talk page) 22:33, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Marcus D

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I have been looking for sources but there does not seem to be any hard and fast ones except for Auburn's local paper, the artist's home town. He seems to fail WP:BAND. Guerillero &#124;  My Talk  03:55, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

-=-=- He meets 2 of the WP:BAND criteria (more information on this can be found within the discussion), and if "An Eternal Soul" (A documentary that Marcus D contributed to) is considered notable enough, the artist will have met 3 of the criteria. only 1 of the criteria is required for proper notability. He does not fail WP:BAND.

-=-=-I have added over a dozen new references to the page, including interviews, videos, articles, and tracklistings, so the topic of sources should no longer be an issue.

Once again, I'm new to wikipedia, but i will link my user in place of the process used by Guerillero, as seen above. Kaoskitteh 07:54, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep - Hello, this is Kaoskitteh. I'm the creator of the Marcus D wikipedia page, and I am going to try my hardest to keep this page from being deleted. (In an attempt to keep this discussion organized (I doubt it will be successfully organized), I start each of my posts with -=- ). I worked with Marcus D personally to make this page, which is why some references may be nonexistent, but if given the time, I'm sure we can find reliable and verifiable sources. On the topic of the WP:BAND notability, he does in fact meet the criteria of "5. Has released two or more albums on a major label or on one of the more important indie labels (i.e., an independent label with a history of more than a few years, and with a roster of performers, many of whom are notable)." as he has released an album with the Indie label Elevation (Not to be confused with another induie label under the same name, which went out of business over 20 years ago), as well as with the label Hydeout Productions. Hydeout has released many albums, and has artists that were featured in the soundtrack of the animated television series Samurai Champloo, which was highly acclaimed for it's unique soundtrack. If you look at the track-listings for many of Marcus D's albums, you will find that Marcus also works with many of the hip-hop artists that Hydeout itself works with. The following information was not recorded in the wikipedia page, as I considered it to be unnecessary, but Marcus is currently in the process of making another album, which may be released under the Hydeout label, as well as three others which have undetermined release information, such as publishing labels and such. In my own personal opinion, I consider Marcus D to be quite worthy of having a wikipedia page, and I will continue to work towards keeping it from being removed.
 * The notable indie label Elevation existed between 1987 and 1988 and is not the same label that Marcus D released on. -- Guerillero &#124;  My Talk  21:29, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

-=-=-This has been confirmed. The Elevation label that Marcus D worked with is not the same label as the label from 20 years ago. This is a link to the current Elevation label on bandcamp.

-=-Including more information, Marcus D was also featured on the soundtrack for the Nujabes Documentary, named "An Eternal Soul". If considered notable enough, this could fill the WP:BAND requirement of "10. Has performed music for a work of media that is notable, e.g., a theme for a network television show, performance in a television show or notable film, inclusion on a notable compilation album, etc.". The soundtrack can be found at [], and the documentary itself can be found at []. This documentary was made after the death of Nujabes, and features many of the artists he worked with. Kaoskitteh 08:12, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Is there a secondary source that discusses this? -- Guerillero &#124;  My Talk  21:29, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

-=-=-

-=-I have added multiple references to the page, and can now fill the WP:BAND requirement of "9. Has won or placed in a major music competition.". the link for this information is here. . all other added references can be found on the wikipedia page itself. If anyone has tips and/or requirements that would help move this page to a stable situation, tell me. please. Kaoskitteh 08:29, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

-=-At this point, I believe there are enough sources to fill the WP:BAND requirements, as well as an acceptable amount of verifiable links, including multiple interviews with the artist from reputable sources, and links to the artist on music sites such as Bandcamp, iTunes, and the Hydeout/Tribe record label online store. I respectfully ask that the Marcus D Wikipedia page be kept online, and that the deletion form be closed, unless there are still issues with the page that are notable enough to keep it from being considered worthy. If any issues still arise, tell me, and I will fix them. Thank you for the encouragement to add sources to the page. It was my fault that the page did not fully meet the requirements before-hand, but from what I can see, it meets the requirements now. Thank you for your consideration. Kaoskitteh 10:08, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

-=-If the page is still considered unworthy of being on Wikipedia, I have the page backed up on a Notepad document, and I will re-post it after the artist has released more music, which would undeniably add to his notability. I am quite frustrated with the lack of hard research conducted by the initiator of all this before submitting the form for the deletion of this page, and I respectfully ask that, for those who submit such pages for deletion, you conduct more research on the topic before committing the act. I also admit that there is a large, almost needless, amount of information on this talk page, but the more information you can acquire, the better. Thank you again. Kaoskitteh 10:21, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I did the research suggested by policy. Even with the sources you added I still fail to see how he passes the GNG or BAND -- Guerillero &#124;  My Talk  21:29, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

-=-=-Policy suggests that, if notability is the primary issue of a page, to search for additional sources before nominating for deletion. I have been able to add over 10 different references that confirm the artist's notability in a relatively short period of time. This tells me that the page was nominated for deletion before any substantial research was conducted that may have contributed to the notability of the page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kaoskitteh (talk • contribs) 16:37, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

-=-The BAND requirements state that, in order to be considered notable, the subject must meet at least one of the requirements, and as I stated before, Marcus D won the Red Bull Big Beat Seattle competition in 2009, which meets the category of winning a major music competition. the link can be found above. He has also released 2 albums on notable Independent Record Labels, which is the required criteria for "5. Has released two or more albums on a major label or on one of the more important indie labels". The page meets not just one, but two of the required categories, and have verifiable reference sources. Are the provided sources not reliable enough? I've seen multiple wikipedia pages on Music Artists that have far less information and references, but even with the one or two links that are provided for them, they meet the notability criteria. I've provided 15 links to verify as much information as I can. The information on this page that does not have a reference would be the information on various single and collaboration releases, and if that is something that you consider an issue, please let me know. Also, if you see any other issues, please tell me, as I believe that I have properly verified that the artist meets the Musician Notability Criteria. If you still feel that he does not meet the criteria, please explain to me your reasoning so that I may attempt to fix the errors. I have no problems with long explanations. Kaoskitteh 16:06, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

-=-Another link about his work on "An Eternal Soul OST" can be found here, and while it provides less information than the other link, the information that is there is the same as the information on bandcamp. On the topic of "Substantial and Marcus D are Bop Alloy" being released under the record label "Elevation", I have a link to Elevation's Bandcamp page right here. I doubt that this would satisfy people who are more focused on full verification, but Substantial clearly states "Elevation Proudly Presents..." in the first song of the album, which is very minor evidence that the album was released under the Elevation Label. What other information do you request that I provide you? Kaoskitteh 16:29, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

-=-I have more information to add. This is information that the artist prefers not be posted on the wikipedia page itself, but he has given me permission to use it to prevent the page deletion. Marcus D's first album release in Japan, "Revival of the Fittest", was released under the Goon Trax label,  which is a section of the major Media Factory corporation, which is very widely known for their contribution to the world of Anime. The Goon Trax label itself has a large multitude of music releases, and pairing this with Marcus D's release of "Substantial and Marcus D are Bop Alloy" with the Japanese Label Elevation (Which I do believe is a label that is different from the label that has a page on Wikipedia), and with the artist's release of "Melancholy Hopeful" with the notable label Hydeout Productions (AKA Tribe), the artist is fully within the guidelines of the BAND page. Kaoskitteh 08:01, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

-=-Here is a more verifiable link for information about Marcus D's success in the 2009 Red Bull Big Tune Seattle music competition. Kaoskitteh 08:36, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

-=- This is a personal message to the admin who is assigned to determine the verdict of this discussion. If there is any information that I need to add that would prevent the deletion of this page, please contact me, and I will provide you with whatever you need. Thank you very much. Kaoskitteh 09:02, 21 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Washington-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:56, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:56, 20 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Stifle (talk) 13:26, 27 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I invite users other than User:Kaoskitteh to contribute so that we can get a wider view of the community's assessment. Stifle (talk) 13:27, 27 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete Despite User:Kaoskitteh's detailed response, I cannot find evidence that this artist meets WP:MUSBIO. Looking at the existing references on the article, only one of them is both in-depth and from a reliable, independent source, the article in Auburn Reporter which is only a local newspaper and thus not ideal for establishing notability (generally some national or at minimum substantial regional coverage is required).  Other references are either to non-independent sources like YouTube, Facebook, iTunes, BandCamp, or are very brief (a link to a video, an interview without a substantial introductory text, a list of 5 things Marcus D has picked, one entry in a list of tracks, etc).  As already mentioned, the criterion "5. Has released two or more albums on a major label or on one of the more important indie labels" is not satisfied.  "9. Has won or placed in a major music competition" refers by example to Grammy Award and Juno Award, which are the most prestigious awards in their respective countries, but the "Red Bull Big Tune" does not carry the same esteem (as is shown by the lack of press coverage).  No other criteria appear to be satisfied either.  If Marcus D has collaborated with other notable artists or on notable recordings, he could be mentioned in their articles, but he doesn't meet the requirements for his own article at the moment. --Colapeninsula (talk) 17:43, 27 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment "9. Has won or placed in a major music competition" does not refer by example. As such, this would seem to require clarification on what is meant by "major". 8 has a very similar basis to 9, but they are not the same. If 9 referred only to awards such as Grammy awards and such, then it would not be necessary, as 8 already covers that. - The artist has released 3 albums with label companies. Hydeout Productions, Elevation, and Goon Trax (Media Factory). I'm aware that Elevation is not considered notable at this point, but Hydeout is notable, and because Goon Trax is a sub-section of a company that has licensed dozens of well known works, I would consider that to make it notable as well. unless Goon Trax isn't considered notable (not having a wikipedia page does not make Goon Trax un-notable, as this is a community-based site), then wouldn't the artist meet the notability requirement? Kaoskitteh (talk) 14:44, 28 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment In what may be my last attempt at saving this page, I link my favorite rule on Wikipedia. A rule that I wish would be implemented in so many other places. . While the notability of the artist is disputed (It is close in many senses, that can be said for sure) the page is not a negative contribution. The page supplies information that has been referenced, is truthful, is useful, and is relevant. The information can, will, and already has been used to inform interested parties about this topic, and is currently the only page on the internet to contain all relevant information about the topic in one place. over 250 users other than myself viewed the page within a day of it's posting. The artist shared the page on Facebook, and many of his followers responded with gracious comments and respect. 268 users to be exact (or at least as exact as we can get). That's 268 people who were interested in the information, and found much of the information that they were looking for. At this time, the page has been viewed 1726 times. The page has been available for the public for a mere 13 days (published on February 15). While the amount of people who viewed the page themselves cannot be counted, I can assure you that the page is being used. While notability is a very reliable guideline, it is made completely to prevent artists who have little to no following, history, or substantial work from cluttering the site. A band that a group of teenagers formed in a garage during the summer, who released a couple of albums that never made it out of the county, is an example of what Wikipedia is not made for. This would be a page that an extremely small amount of people would use, and would not inform anyone. An artist who has worldwide listeners, and has worked on their music for multiple years, but has yet to achieve success with a person of notability, is an example of something Wikipedia should contain. An artist who makes music that thousands of people enjoy shouldn't have any less right than an artist who is listened to by millions merely because they were noticed by the right person at the right time. The message I'm trying to convey is that instead of using a book to determine the outcome of all situations, you should use common sense. If the artist is liked by many, and people will use the information that is being contributed, what grounds could you possibly have to prevent that. - - "Instead of following every rule, it is acceptable to use common sense as you go about editing. Being too wrapped up in rules can cause loss of perspective, so there are times when it is better to ignore a rule. Even if a contribution "violates" the precise wording of a rule, it might still be a good contribution." - - If you can give me evidence that what I have provided is not a good contribution, other than by the fact that the artist isn't notable, then do so. If you believe that information on this page is false, then I do not want to see you point it out, but I want to see you prove it. Before you make any reply, I want you to read . It explains a lot. Also, read the original. It gives a great sense of what Wikipedia was made for, originally, and what it is still used for today. . If the page is deleted, I will re-post it within hours of the artists' next album release (This means that deletion will only be a postponing of the inevitable. I do not give up). When that will be is unknown, but It will happen, and the page will be prepared. I have done something here that I should not have. I took this personally. However, I regret nothing, and I still respect all users who contributed to anything on this page. Everyone has the right to share their thoughts. It's a matter of whether or not you want to listen to that person's thoughts that matters. Kaoskitteh (talk) 16:53, 28 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment The artist has also had their music played on the KUBE93 radio station (Seattle) KUBE (FM) and has been interviewed on the station multiple times. An excerpt from one of these interviews (KUBE93 interview with Marcus D and Substantial) can be heard for the intro track to Marcus D's co-release Pre-Paired.   Kaoskitteh (talk) 16:02, 6 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Delete While the "keep" arguments are heartfelt, the article's subject does not meet WP:MUSICBIO; Hydeout Productions is not "one of the more important indie labels".  Mini  apolis  02:02, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.