Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Maria Barnaby Greenwald


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Dusti*Let's talk!* 02:57, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

Maria Barnaby Greenwald

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Non-notable local politician. The article incorrectly state she was on the New Jersey Superior Court, she was only a county surrogate. Neither that position, being mayor, or county freeholder gives her notability under WP:POLITICIAN Also, I believe WP:NOTMEMORIAL applies here too.Rusf10 (talk) 02:31, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions.  CASSIOPEIA(talk) 03:15, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
 * <small class="delsort-notice">Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New Jersey-related deletion discussions. <b style="font-family:Georgia;font-size:80%;color:#FA0"> CASSIOPEIA</b>(<b style="#0000FF">talk</b>) 03:15, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Keep Djflem (talk) 08:10, 4 April 2019 (UTC) <div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * first woman mayor of Cherry Hill
 * first directly elected mayor of Cherry Hill
 * first woman elected to the Camden County Board of Chosen Freeholder
 * first woman director of Board of Chosen Freeholders
 * first woman surrogate for the New Jersey Superior Court in Camden County
 * Camden County Hall of Justice named in her honor
 * Delete. Mayors of townships are not handed an automatic notability freebie just for existing as mayors, but this article is referenced nowhere close to well enough to get her over WP:NPOL #2 ("major local political figures who have received significant press coverage") — and no, being the first woman to hold a not-inherently notable role is still not a notability freebie that exempts her from having to have better referencing than this, either. Every community that exists at all will always have its own first woman or women to have done local-interest stuff, so "first woman to do a not inherently notable thing" is not an inclusion freebie in the absence of a much greater depth and range and volume of sourcing than this. If she'd been the first woman mayor in the history of the entire United States, that would mean something because she would have a lot more coverage, but Wikipedia does not routinely accept "first woman mayor of her own small town" as an article-clinching notability claim in the absence of evidence that she received much more substantial coverage for that distinction than is being shown here. And none of the other things in Djflem's list mean much either: directly elected mayors, county councils and court surrogates are still not inherently notable roles, so being the first woman in her own local area (but very far from the first woman nationwide) to accomplish those things is still not an automatic inclusion freebie — and having a piece of local public infrastructure named after her is not an instant notability pass for a local politician either, because that would hand a majority of all municipal politicians everywhere a free exemption from actually having to be referenced well enough to pass NPOL #2. Naming stuff after local political figures is just what towns and cities and counties do, not a thing that automaticallly makes the namesake so "inherently" notable that she's exempted from having to be referenced properly just because a building exists with her name on the front door. No matter what local firsts a mayor or county councillor can claim to represent, the inclusion test for politicians at the local level still requires them to have a lot more reliable source coverage about them than this actually shows: one short obituary blurb, one paragraph about her on one page of a local history book published by a print-on-demand house and three primary sources that do nothing to support notability is not enough to make a smalltown mayor notable regardless of her gender. Bearcat (talk) 14:29, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep. A Newspapers.com search finds 715 hits in the Philadelphia Inquirer alone. A national search yields 1,563 results. I haven't gone through all of these, but I've looked into some of the Inquirer plus 6 New York Daily News hits, and this is not routine, trivial coverage.Jacona (talk) 13:13, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jovanmilic97 (talk) 10:37, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep per above. Wikieditor19920 (talk) 20:18, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Specifically which keep argument? That she is the first women (mayor/freeholder/etc.) of a specific town/county (ie. gender=notability) or that there are a lot of newspaper hits (ie WP:GOOGLEHITS & WP:ITSINTHENEWS)--Rusf10 (talk) 20:56, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
 * This was enough to persuade me that the article should be kept. Wikieditor19920 (talk) 19:39, 12 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Comment This is not just internet-age google hit count we're talking about. This is genuine coverage in Newspapers in New Jersey and elsewhere. In addition to all the New Jersey Coverage, there are over 700 newspapers.com articles in the Philadelphia Inquirer alone, and more in other Philly publications. I'm not going to try to list them, but that level of coverage doesnt apply to your average freeholder. Since Philly might be considered local, there are also articles from NY papers, including for instance The New York Daily News including the February 26, 1979 issue. There's coverage in The Morning News from Wilmington, Delaware - 3 articles dated September 1, 1977 September 23, 1977, January 12, 1995. Much of the NY and Delaware coverage discusses the mayor and two events/issues: a workfare proposal and a police force sickout. With these, this article meets the general notability guidelineJacona (talk) 19:12, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep as per Djflem's list of achievements above. Particularly as first woman mayor of the town, she was a pioneer for women in public office in her area. MurielMary (talk) 10:18, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep. Per available sources, clearly passes the WP:GNG. gidonb (talk) 20:07, 14 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep per Djflem's explanation above, and MurielMary. Hundreds more references readily available on newspaper engines on the internet, will try and add more soon. <b style="color:#000080">S EMMENDINGER </b> (<b style="color:#F80"> talk </b>) 11:58, 16 April 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.