Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Maria Danes & Paul Killington


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was Deleted by Crzrussian per CSD-A7. SynergeticMaggot 05:06, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Maria Daines & Paul Killington
''Note to closing admin: the original namespace this inhabited would not allow it to be correctly displayed on the AfD page, so I move the page to Maria Daines & Paul Killington and the AfD to Articles for deletion/Maria Danes & Paul Killington. If the consensus is delete, please be aware that the Maria Daines/Paul Killington redirect should also be removed. My apologies for the additional effort this entails.''--Isotope23 20:28, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

This Article does not addert evidence of nobility per WP:MUSIC. Need commends on what to do with article. --Willy No1lakersfan (Talk - Contribs) 15:11, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete I can't see anything that meets WP:MUSIC. Maria Danes has 1 album released on a minor indie label.  All info I found about Paul Killington was in relation to the songs he has written for Maria Danes.  There are some awards, etc that she apparently won, but nothing that would constitute a major music award.  There is a contention of regional touring, but that does not qualify under WP:MUSIC.  If kept this needs an obvious rewrite (no offense to the primary contributor who is obviously new at this) and should be moved to Maria Danes as the current name is not the conventional was of listing. Paul Killington could have brief mention as her songwriting collaborator, but I don't see anything that would come even close to qualifying him for a standalone article even if Maria Danes is kept.--Isotope23 14:13, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

DO NOT DELETE !!!! Well, I can't see where you've disproven the factual basis of Maria Daines and Paul Killingtons existence as a major influence on the world in which we live through her music and humanitarian contributions that have made a positive impact on humanity and its behaviour in terms of all living things. So, who am I to stop you from recommending deletion...... I actually wish you would help to re-write the article, and perhaps format this page. It's obvious that you are far more proficient at editing and contributing than we are. So, please, go ahead and operate as you see fit !!!! By the way, Maria Daines and Paul Killington are very well known throughout the world. Perhaps, a bit more digging, and you shall find that Maria and Paul are REAL PEOPLE !!!!

Also, it would be a shame to remove Maria and paul from Wikipedia. I don't know how this place operates, but, if your statements are in fact a vote towards the uncertainty of their existence.....I am countering your opinion with my own, that they are true human beings with hearts as big as the universe.....

You vote no...I vote yes !!!! Now, I suppose we need only have one more person state their opinion, and vote to decide all of this....

In other words......PLEASE HELP !!!!! ;-)

Peace,

ZEST 18:30, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * We are not questioning their existance, just their notability. Nowhere did we say anything about their existance. I am sorry if you thought we were saying that. If you want formatting help, I can tag this page for cleanup and get the help we need. --Willy No1lakersfan (Talk - Contribs) 18:43, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment, yes... I second what No1lakersfan said. Nobody is suggesting that Maria Danes & Paul Killington don't exist or that they don't make music.  Their existance is verifiable; Maria Dane's 1 album is sold on Amazon.com...  I'm also not questioning their dedication to their craft or their dedication to humanitarian causes.  The problem is that Wikipedia has guidelines for what musical acts are appropriate for articles.  These guidelines can be found at this link: WP:MUSIC.  If you feel they qualify for inclusion based on this criteria, please explain which criteria they meet (and include a link to a website or cite a print article from a reliable source, etc that would prove this.  If this article survives this AfD (which takes about 5 days to complete), I will clean it up to conform to style standards.--Isotope23 19:01, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Oh...O.K. then...if you want proof of their notability....I'll give you a few hints...Maria and Paul have been featured on the BBC Cambridge, and BBC Cornwall as recently as a few days ago !!!! They give live interviews, and discuss their music and plight to aid in making this planet a better place for us all. Also, Maria and Paul are up for an award for their song, I Am The Owner Of This Coat at an animal activist award ceremony that is to take place this year in Los Angeles, California, USA. Maria has received correspondence with regards to all her hard work from many people around the globe...as can be evidenced by the guestbook on her website. Maria and Paul are not signed to a major record label, however, what determines what a major music label is anymore. What with all the changes in the industry, even a web based band can rise to extreme noteriety without all the trappings of a major record label, and the ultimate position of poverty they have been responsible for of many artists around the world. I'll take small and independent labels over major labels anyday !!!! Now there's one for your WP:MUSIC article for updating and correlation of Major versus minor label distribution endearing itself to how noteable an artist is.... Hey, don't believe that Maria and Paul are noteable....check this out.... A google search that shows many, many pages of references to Maria and her great work and accomplishments that span many pages with no interruptions in reference to Maria Daines I guess what I'msaying in reality is, just because an artist hasn't made the grade on the WP:MUSIC guidelines here at Wikipedia, doesn't mean they aren't noteable to many tens of thousands of people accross the planet.

Oh well...I suppose that being part of a UN department of information group that is NGO probably has no bearing on the situation either.... 

Alrighty, I have tried to make my case for Maria and Paul...Let the chips fall where they may.....But, please remember, being noteable by one standard, doesn't mean some one is not noteable by other standards....

Cheers,

ZEST 19:26, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

P.S. I have notified Maria and Paul of this discussion, I hope they get the message in time..... Perhaps, since you are so kind as to offer assitance, could you please contact them directly to help ???? maria@maria-daines.com

FURTHER TO THE DEBATE:

I would say that this case and my own - I was recently deleted - reveals Wikipedia's true colours. Wikipedia appears to be an elitist organisation of snobs who are more interested in what is mainstream media approved rather than talent, creativity or other work! In other words if you're a 'celeb' you are in and if you are not approved as this you are not!

Wikipedia is clearly more interested in red-tape and bureacracy and advancing the Orwellian nightmare fascist world.

Who makes these rulings as to who is a 'notable' person or band and who is not?

I was not 'notable' enough despite having had an EP out on a proper label (Crai Records), having worked with musicians such as Crum (ex-Hawkwind), Phil Moxham (Young Marble Giants), Robin Williamson (Incredible String Band) and Gruff Rhys (Super Furry Animals) and having compered and played at Glastonbury Festival and the Green Man Festival as well as having been rave reviewed in the NME were simply not good enough!

Faced with this sort of logic is it any wonder that musicians take matters into their own hands and promote their songs online or release their music on their own labels?

Maria and Paul have both been featured on national BBC radio so should qualify under the rulings here even if I don't and I hope to see their entry not deleted!

Steve Andrews aka Bard of Ely
 * Comment, Steve... read WP:CIVIL & WP:AGF. Calling Wikipedia an "elitist organisation of snobs" and "fascist" isn't really going to do much to convince people to take your arguments seriously.  At the end of the day, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia as has some standards for inclusion (notably WP:MUSIC in this case).  I'm very sorry if some editors determined that an article about you was not suitable for the project, but that doesn't really have any bearing on this particular article, or this discussion.  Realistically speaking, whether or not this article survives will have absolutely no effect on the careers of Maria Danes & Paul Killington, or their ability to release their music.--Isotope23 18:24, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.