Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Maria Tash


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep following article rework during the course of the AfD.  Spinning Spark 

Maria Tash

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Sorry, not notable, just a promo for her website Modern.Jewelry.Historian (talk) 06:51, 16 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete There are no independent sources and being an "orphan" is also a good clue. I quick Google search turned up no possible reliable, independent sources, further convincing me of the lack of notability. The Anonymouse (talk • contribs) 07:25, 16 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete - anyone looked at the article history? It was created by a... User:MariaTash. Where does her userpage redirect to? This page. Do I need to say much more? (other than what is said above) Lukeno94 (talk) 11:41, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fashion-related deletion discussions. -- Cheers,  Riley   Huntley  14:23, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. -- Cheers,  Riley   Huntley  14:23, 16 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete — This subject fails WP:BASIC, WP:CREATIVE, and WP:ANYBIO spectacularly. JFHJr (㊟) 17:13, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete Clearly promotional; not even close to meeting WP:GNG. § FreeRangeFrog 20:56, 16 November 2012 (UTC) Article is being re-sourced; holding out on a !vote for now. § FreeRangeFrog  04:37, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete There are several news items relating to Britney Spears buying from the subject, for example Washington Post via Highbeam (subscription reqd). However notability is not inherited and I am not finding anything substantial about the subject herself. AllyD (talk) 21:30, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:25, 17 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep/Comment This does look like it will end up being a snow delete, but I would just comment on what I found after searching for her other name, Maria Tashjian. 1 - Mention of her owning one of the "oldest piercing emporiums" in NY in 1999, being consulted re: body piercing. 2 is another mention. 3 Spanish language article where she seems to have a paragraph. Clearly she does have some notability for her piercing salon in New York. I've also come across this 1995 news article which has quite a lot about her and her salon and some biographical information. For these reasons I will not jump on the snow delete bandwagon, and instead venture a keep vote, although with ambivalence. I'd also comment that the "FIT Network Magazine" article scan used as a reference in the article would probably be a valid RS if it were available online anywhere or we had proper publication information for it. I tried searching for the author's names, etc but no joy. Mabalu (talk) 12:24, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  MBisanz  talk 00:06, 24 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment Well, those are certainly more interesting sources. That one Cuban article in Spanish from 2002 seems to grant some notability. Here are he original and translated relevant paragraphs (I'm fluent in Spanish):

"Si bien por ahora constituyen una exigua minoría, entre los 'primitivos modernos' hay algunos pensadores de vanguardia que exploran los ritos corporales de las culturas procedentes del tercer mundo como una suerte de homenaje a las civilizaciones que los regímenes coloniales trataron de extirpar. En tal sentido, entre las variantes que han captado la atención de los especialistas figura la llamada 'estética tribal', enarbolada por Maria Tashjian quien, desde su salón de modificaciones corporales en los Estados Unidos, es una ferviente activista de la idea de educar a la gente para que conserve la memoria de culturas desaparecidas y transmita los antiguos ideales de belleza que prevalecían entre los oriundos moradores de África, Asia y América."

"Although for now they constitute a small minority, among the 'modern primitives' there are some forward thinkers who explore the corporal rituals of third-world cultures as a sort of homage to the civilizations that the colonial regimes attempted to eliminate. In this sense, among the variants that have caught the attention of specialists are the so-called 'tribal aesthetics', headed by Maria Tashjian who, from her body modification parlor in the United States, is a fervent believer in the idea of educating people to preserve the memory of disappeared cultures and of transmitting the ancient ideals of beauty prevalent among the indigenous people of Africa, Asia and America."

So I guess it's a matter of determining the other sources are reliable. The lack of access to out-of print material that was never digitized bothers me, as with so many other topics that don't necessarily have an internet presence. I'm leaning towards keep at this point. § FreeRangeFrog 00:27, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:SNOW. Non-notable puffery.FailsWP:BIO --Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 21:51, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment A full rewrite and sourcing has been undertaken. I managed to identify the FIT magazine as the 2004 edition. Although a few of the sources are not as good as I would hope for, I feel that sources such as the FIT magazine article, the Spanish article (thanks to FreeRangeFrog for the translation) and the Becerra article are good enough sources to show that Tashjian is notable. I would suggest that previous votes be stricken as being in relation to the article before it was totally rewritten, and a new round of votes taken on the current article be assessed on its merits. The only thing that bugs me is that I can't find a Wiki-worthy reference for her appearance on the Tyra Banks show but this can be found easily enough on Google. Mabalu (talk) 04:32, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep The work done by Mabalu to source this bio is more than enough, I think, to merit inclusion under WP:GNG. There are multiple, independent third-party references to this person and her work. To boot, it's no longer blatantly promotional. § FreeRangeFrog 01:37, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep - per re-worked article (nice work!) and sources provided therein. I'm satisfied they are enough to meet WP:GNG. Stalwart 111  03:31, 26 November 2012 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.