Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Marina 106


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. – Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 02:43, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Marina 106

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Per WP:CRYSTAL. This building is apparently under construction but this forum shows that construction never even started. Google news doesn't have anything on it, so I don't think it meets WP:N either. Smartse (talk) 23:55, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete No reliable sources of information found on GNews (including archive), GScholar or GBooks. Even the official website is just a placeholder "This domain may be for sale.". No indication of notability. Even the article creator seems to be confused, saying that Marina 106 is... and then saying it will be... --  Phantom Steve  ( Contact Me, My Contribs ) 01:11, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United Arab Emirates-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 01:40, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment - Apparently it's a proposed or planned building but not yet approved per Emporis. - Marcusmax  ( speak ) 03:40, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. Marcusmax brought up the link to Emporis, and noted that it's a planned and unapproved building - leading to WP:CRYSTAL.  That, and the forums don't bode well for this, stating that it's never been started. -- Dennis The Tiger   (Rawr and stuff) 04:03, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. Given the economic situation in Dubai (in a word: dismal), it's a fair bet that this building will never be built, or that it will change drastically before being completed. The construction photos from Skyscraper City certainly don't bode well. Zetawoof(&zeta;) 06:20, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Related news story: "Shares hit by Dubai debt problems" (BBC). Zetawoof(&zeta;) 01:52, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete: Per WP:CRYSTAL. Joe Chill (talk) 02:02, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

I dont think that it should be deleted, i have listed the following sources ...


 * Arabbuilder.com
 * Emporis.com
 * Skyscraperpage.com
 * Skyscrapercity.com

are they not enough to proof its presence ??? i know that its status is currently Approves as stated in Emporis, so i will change its status from under construction to Approved. There are alot of articles of skyscrapers on wikipedia, in which there status is written as under construction but they are really not so !

it is reasonabale that Marina 106 will be constructed in future, but it doesnt mean that it will not be built at all, or you delete its article.....

Nabil rais2008 (talk) 14:37, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Those websites are not reliable; they allow developers to make claims. 208.59.120.194 (talk) 09:12, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * We are not disputing the fact that it has been planned, however reading the article as it stands makes it seem as though the building is at least being built but as the photos show it doesn't appear to be the case. I read a news article just today which said that there are many half completed skyscrapers in Dubai, even if conditions improve then it is likely that these would be completed before construction of this ever starts. Until we have evidence to show that this is actually being built rather than just being a plan it shouldn't be mentioned here. Smartse (talk) 17:42, 26 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete not really notable until it starts build, might be worth a mention in Dubai Marina which just has links to similar unbuilt plans. MilborneOne (talk) 00:15, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete, it's not that it won't get built, but the fact that it doesn't even have enough sources to pass WP:V. 208.59.120.194 (talk) 09:08, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

I think that the sources are enough to pass.....

Arabbuilder.com Ggicouae.com Emporis.com Skyscraperpage.com Skyscrapercity.com

just visit these sources, there is no question of deleting this article. Have a look at the following skyscrapers,


 * 200 Greenwich Street
 * 150 Greenwich Street
 * 175 Greenwich Street
 * World Trade Center Tower 5

these four towers are also currently approved or proposed but these towers got popularity just because of freedom tower, which is the only building which is currently under construciton there thats why they have alot of sources and external links. afew months before there was news that these all towers were under construciton. but there construciton has been halted.As you can see the delays in the construcrion of freedom tower, so who can say that these four towers will be built or not ????? So they also do not pass WP:V.so delete all these articles because USA is more badly affected by global downturn than Dubai.If you know the construction of Chicago spire has already been halted. So we may also consider it in the above mentioned four towers.may be they will be built in 2015 or may not be built at all !!! Nabil rais2008 (talk) 11:18, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * What I look for is sources. The Chicago Spire gets in the news for being cancelled. But Marina 106 didn't get in the news for being cancelled or for anything else. 208.59.120.194 (talk) 06:15, 29 November 2009 (UTC)


 * As a rule, other articles which do or do not exist are not used as arguments for the deletion or keeping of an article. This discussion is about this article. Whether other articles should exist is not relevant to this discussion - if you think that those articles should be deleted, you would either have to discuss them on the relevant article's talk page, or take them to AfD themselves. (Incidently, you might want to read the essay Other stuff exists, as that discusses this issue) --  Phantom Steve / talk &#124; contribs \ 11:30, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

I am just giving an example, if they wanna delete this article then they must tag the above mentioned articles too. Marina 106, is currently exist ok and there is nothing like that i have invented this building and craete an article here, Emporis is considered as primary source and it has an entry of MArina 106.

Nabil rais2008 (talk) 11:50, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * In that case, may I refer you to the conflict of interest guidelines? You said that it exists, but earlier in this conversation, you said that it hasn't been built, but has been approved.
 * Looking at your 4 sources above in detail:
 * Arab Builder (dated 19th November this year) - clearly shows that this is a future project (Estimated completion : 2012)
 * Emporis: Current status planned [proposed]
 * Skyscraper Page: I think the link you meant to put up was here. However, that clearly shows this as a future, potential project (Finished 2012)
 * Skyscraper City: Firstly, this is a forum, so not counted as a reliable source. Also, the latest entry on there was 15th October - and then, the final two comments were "So sad it's on hold" and (from the forum moderator) "Considering the recent redesign of the tower, I doubt they have even got the Municipality's build permission yet."
 * All in all, these clearly show that this is a future, proposed building. There is no evidence that it will definitely will be built. If it is built, then perhaps it will warrant an entry on Wikipedia, but it is not Wikipedia's job to have articles about "possible" buildings, or even "probable" buildings. --  Phantom Steve / talk &#124; contribs \ 15:37, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

No i have only told you about the existence of marina 106, i doesnt mean that its existence (as a under construciton structure), but its existence as a supertall skyscraper to be built in future. So what about the articles of other proposed skyscrapers in wikipedia ??? so wht do you think about the following proposed skyscrapers ? e.g: (it is only the list of those skyscrapers which are taller than 360 meters, and there are tons of proposed skyscrapers below 350 meters). what about these supertall skyscrapers ? these are proposed skyscrapers and no body knows they will be built or not and "it is not Wikipedia's job to have articles about "possible" buildings, or even "probable" buildings" as you said !!! please explain yourself, Marina 106 is not only building in wikipedia which is proposed or "a possible building"..there are a tons of articles of proposed buildings in wikipedia as i mentioned above, and wikipedia doesnt restrict to create such articles, as far i know.
 * Madison Square Garden Tower I
 * Madison Square Garden Tower II
 * Xujiahui Tower
 * The Gateway III Tower
 * Hudson Place Tower I
 * Waldorf-Astoria Hotel and Residence Tower
 * Tower Verre
 * Manhattan West
 * San Francisco Transbay development
 * Empire World Tower I
 * Empire World Tower II
 * Transbay Transit Center & Tower
 * Dubai City Tower

Nabil rais2008 (talk) 16:21, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Comment - "Planned and unapproved buildings" do not fail WP:CRYSTAL simply because they have not yet begun construction. See Articles for deletion/Trans National Place - provided that a building proposal receives significant coverage from reliable third-party sources, it does not need to be under construction to warrant its own article. The problem here isn't that the building isn't under construction, it's that it doesn't seem to meet the general notability guidelines. Emporis is a building database, so it isn't a good measure of a building's notability. Unlike the proposed towers listed above, which from what I can tell meet the general notability guidelines set forth in WP:NOTE, this tower seems to lack reliable third-party sources. Cheers, Rai • me  05:25, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment Raime, you are quite correct - I stand corrected! Marina 106 does not appear to have any information for reliable sources (reliable as Wikipedia defines it here) that show that it is notable. As mentioned, the others listed above appear to have received coverage from reliable sources, whereas this one hasn't. --  Phantom Steve / talk &#124; contribs \ 11:04, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

If you are talking about notability then let me tell you thet Marina 106 is going to be one of the tallest residential buildings in the world once completed. And it will be 425 meters tall, and it will make it 2nd tallest residential building in dubai and 4th tallest building in dubai.So arent it is notable ??? I know that there are not many sources on net currently because its construciton has not yet started, we shall have to wait for some reliable sources to come !

Nabil rais2008 (talk) 11:16, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Exactly, we will have to wait for the reliable sources. And when it does meet those guidelines we can revisit.  Until then, it really should be deleted. -- Dennis The Tiger   (Rawr and stuff) 22:12, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.