Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mario Parga


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. -- Cirt (talk) 20:02, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Mario Parga

 * – ( View AfD View log )

I don't mind being proven wrong, cause the subject can play, but he is not notable. Look at the Google News and Book searches--nothing. I am not embarrassed to say that I've been listening to metal guitar players for a few decades now, and this one I'd never heard of, despite this claim. Drmies (talk) 03:54, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 18:30, 20 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep Have added three references. The last reference is the most notable with a long dedicated interview on dmme.net. Hope that's enough to get him kept.  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 21:33, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
 * This is not an interview done with a reputable, reliable source. The other references you added, while they are appreciated, are not to reliable sources. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 04:57, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment From User Silentseduction08: User Drmies, how can you say that DMME.net in not a reliable source? Dmitry Epstein has interviewed a huge list of famous musicians, including Paul McCartney and Ozzy Osbourne. Do you really believe that someone unreliable or unverified would be able to secure interviews with such international household names? I'm in serious doubt of your editing capabilities. 07:52, 1 March 2011


 * Keep From User Silentseduction08: There is so much information available on Mario Parga, one of the UK's most notable instrumental guitarists, that I'm surprised this Wikipedia page is being scrutinized again. A 'Google' search shows countless references to him from all over the world for the past 23 years. User Drmies - there are thousands of notable musicians in the world that I myself do not know of, but that doesn't mean that they're unworthy of recognition here on Wikipedia. I'm sorry, but I find your remarks both arrogant and somewhat offensive. Can you honestly name every single rock/metal/instrumental guitarist? I sincerely doubt that. It seems to me that there are a lot of editors on Wikipedia who are at times full of their own self-importance. I've seen it on a few other Wiki pages too. Wikipedia is a tremendous tool and of enormous benefit to all seeking answers. To have a faceless person sat behind a computer wrongfully edit and mark a page for deletion is totally wrong and Wikipedia shouldn't allow it. Yes, I understand that the concept of Wikipedia is the ability to edit/update each article, but to remove important text and mark for deletion purely because someone "has never heard of it" is absolutely ridiculous. To put this into perspective: Mario Parga has appeared and played live on many international radio shows, has played live on MTV and TV in several countries, has music available on Amazon.com. iTunes, Napster, CD Universe, etc., has appeared in a multitude of international mainstream guitar magazines, has/has had several major endorsements from major musical instrument manufacturers, and is known to most followers of what is termed 'shred guitar'. Please keep this page and leave it alone. Thank you.

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, King of &hearts;   &diams;   &clubs;  &spades; 11:36, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep From User Silentseduction08: Multiple references have today been added, there are more if required.
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Delete no claim of notability. Currently, the article suggests this is a session musician.  Session musicians are not notable.  A musician who has talent is not necessarily notable - for instance most musicians in world leading orchestra are not notable. MLA (talk) 12:50, 27 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep From User Silentseduction08: Mario Parga is not, and has never been a session musician. He has appeared on several albums as a 'special guest' (as have many other non-session musicians), but he is primarily known for his own specific guitar instrumental music. Session or unnoted musicians do not generally record solo albums that are available for sale internationally through all the major online stores (iTunes, Napster, etc.) and many physical stores. Nor do they generally do interviews with respected journalists such as Dmitry Epstein (see the dmme.com reference link added on 2.20.11). Mr. Epstein has access to many major household names and recently interviewed Paul McCartney, but he also interviewed Mario Parga in 2008 and opened it with (quote): "There's a lot going on for Mario Parga. Highly respected for his guitar craft, the English-born Las Vegas resident..." "Highly respected" again proves Parga's notablility. The reference link to Shredaholic.com that was added a few days ago lists Parga under 'The Shred Legends' category. This website is specifically dedicated to the 'shred guitar' genre. While talking about 'The Day I Went Mad' album, Spiritofmetal.com (reference link added to the Wikipedia page) describes Parga as follows (quote): "1999's 'The Day I Went Mad' featured guitarist Slash, Def Leppard guitarist Vivian Campbell, Kiss and Union man Bruce Kulick and noted guitar virtuoso Mario Parga". Parga is described as 'noted' here, and is mentioned along with more mainstream guitarists who despite guesting on this album are also not session musicians. The reference links I added prove that a) Parga is definitely noted in the 'shred' guitar genre, b) he is noted as a virtuoso guitarist in mainstream rock music, and c) he records his own music and solo albums and is therefore not a session musician. Please realize that although the instrumental rock guitar and 'shred guitar' genres are not as popular as more mainstream rock/metal/pop, etc., both genres do contain very notable musicians who may not be household names but who have still influenced many musicians.
 * Note: Duplicate "keep" !votes from Silentseduction08 stricken. -- King of &hearts;   &diams;   &clubs;  &spades; 06:42, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment. I hope that the closing admin will look at the actual quality of the references that were added--the article in its current state doesn't have a single reliable source, and really qualifies as a BLP violation (I'm about to apply the appropriate tag). Silentseduction, I did not intend to offend anyone; my apologies if I hurt your feelings. Drmies (talk) 04:57, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment From User Silentseduction08: I too hope that the closing admin will look at the added references as they contain all the points to prove to keep this Wikipedia page in it's current edition. As for user Drmies' comments on the quality and reliability of these references, the references are all legitimate and come from very reliable sources within the 'shred' guitar and rock music genres (I've commented on Drmies' note regarding the unreliablity of DMME.net - please see above). Personally, I think this user is unhappy to discover that he/she is not quite the living lexicon of rock guitarists he/she presumed, and the adding of the new BLP violation tag is in my opinion vindictive behavior as the page is already in question anyway - hence us writing here... I've until now omitted from this discussion that Parga also has two European fan sites (one official and one unofficial) and two unofficial Japanese fan sites. This proves that he's obviously a recognized musician. Possibly the largest website for Mario's type of music is called 'Truth in Shredding'. Typing his name into their search engine brings up a mass of articles on him. AllOutGuitar.com, a very highly respected guitar webzine also has several references to him. I believe that this Wikipedia page is now correct and in compliance with Wikipedia's terms. I respectfully request that all the violation/query tags be removed and the page left alone. Thank you. 07:05, 1 March 2011
 * I'm not going to take the bait offered here to start swapping insults, and I hope I don't have to explain that having (official or unofficial) fansites doesn't mean a whole lot. It is also clear that the editor has not matched the websites mentioned against the requirements in WP:RS, though I urge them to submit those sites to the RS noticeboard at Reliable sources/Noticeboard: if they are that good, then the editor can only benefit. But I would like to say that the tag ("This biography of a living person does not include any references or sources.") is of course not a "violation" tag--it is rather an invitation to improve the article. That it warns the reader that the information in the article does not meet high standards of verifiability, at least in this editor's opinion, is a bonus. Drmies (talk) 21:14, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete. The article's supporters have presented dmme.net as the best source available, but the site itself says that it's a "solo work", i.e. a personal web site rather than a reliable source with editorial control. I'm sure that Drmies has realised by now that I make every effort to prove him (and any other deletion nominator) wrong, but I have been unable to do so in this case. Phil Bridger (talk) 22:41, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Haha Phil--actually I hadn't, I'm kind of thick that way. But I believe you have bested me more than once, and if AfD is a fight (which I don't believe it is), than I gladly admit I was wrong every time I lose to you. Seriously, I tried to find the sources for this one, and I couldn't, and I appreciate you trying as well. Drmies (talk) 01:12, 2 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment from User Silent Seduction08: This will be my final comment on this Wikipedia discussion page. I believe I’ve presented facts and reference links as per Wikipedia’s policy.

I’ve certainly no intention of swapping insults with user Drmies; I simply do not value his/her knowledge of this particular subject matter nor his/her editing credentials. Is it Wikipedia policy to ask for reliable references and sources from a potential editor in order to permit the editing of a page…? Interestingly enough, when I started my University degree last year my class was told that we were unable to use any Wikipedia references due to its unreliability from dubious editing. That kind of sums it all up.

I’m also not surprised to see another ‘delete’ vote, possibly by someone in league with Drmies despite claims to the contrary. If this isn't the case, then I apologize. With regard to user Phil Bridger’s comment on the validity of DMME.net: yes, it is the website of freelance rock journalist Dmitry Epstein. Most of the World’s journalists are in fact ‘freelance’ and make a living selling their interviews to magazines and books. Mr. Epstein is no exception. To think that a highly respected journalist who has interviewed countless internationally known musicians is invalid because his website is “personal” and has no “editorial control” is quite bizarre and nonsensical.

I’m sure the page will be deleted through the ill-informed influence of a few self-proclaimed ‘editors’ who probably sit behind computer screens in bedrooms rather than real editorial positions. And in reply to Drmies’ insinuating message that I myself am possibly Mario Parga: I am not. I am an avid fan of the guitar ‘shred’ genre and took my user name from a song I particularly like from one of Mario’s albums. I have permission from Mario’s management to edit several independent web pages and part of a music website relevant to Mario's music. I’m also a fan of several other notable shred guitarists who I’m sure Drmies “has never heard of” either.

It seems to me that Wikipedia is becoming more of a giant Internet forum than credible archive, and that's a terrible shame... User: Silentseduction08 01:34, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.