Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Marisa Richmond


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Although she is found not to be notable enough for an article at this time, might there be some other article, perhaps about Nashville or about transgender rights, where she could be mentioned? MelanieN (talk) 00:21, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

Marisa Richmond

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Subject is neither notable per WP:BLP1E nor WP:NPOL. I won't call a politician "low-profile" but we can't base notability on claiming transgenderism. Chris Troutman ( talk ) 20:35, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. st170e talk  14:43, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. st170e talk  14:43, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Tennessee-related deletion discussions. st170e talk  14:56, 21 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Neither serving on a municipal committee nor being a delegate to a political party's convention are claims of notability that get a person into Wikipedia in and of themselves — and "first member of a minority group to do this otherwise non-notable thing" isn't an instant notability pass either. She could potentially still earn inclusion if the WP:WEIGHT of sourcing and substance were sitting much more squarely on her role as president of the Tennessee Transgender Political Coalition, but that's also not an automatic inclusion freebie if you're leaning on just two references to carry it. None of this suggests or sources a compelling reason why she's earned an encyclopedia article yet. Delete. Bearcat (talk) 15:20, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment: I have advertised this discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject LGBT studies. Josh Milburn (talk) 16:37, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

I created the page and feel that Marisa Richmond does reach notability requirements as a trailblazer in the transgender rights movement and has made history more than once. I do not know her well personally but have kept up with her advocacy career. I am disturbed that it is considered for deletion when figures of less notability have been included on Wikipedia. She has been mentioned in the press several times and in books on transgender rights. I am trying to track down more books she has been mentioned in. She has won several notable national awards in the transgender community. I would hope Wikipedia would not attempt to censor transgender history. Consciouswanderer (talk) 19:47, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

The case for notability here is on multiple points but the broader career of being an advocate and being a pioneer in transgender rights including the recent accomplishment of being the first transgender individual to be appointed by a Mayor in Tennessee to a municipal commission/committee/board. Nashville is the state capital and second largest city in the US state of Tennessee as well. There are also several other major mentions in books and articles for Marisa Richmond. An overview of her career in 2008 prior to these recent accomplishmentsvis mentioned in the Wikipedia article is here: https://www.outandaboutnashville.com/story/ttpc-president-awarded-baltimore-black-pride#.V0C8GISGpt. Marisa Richmond has has also been invited to the White House several times for events and has personally been among transgender leaders to meet with President Obama more than once as well as senior Presidential Administration figures. She is on the White House list of transgender leaders to regularly communicate with. As one of the more notable public figures in national US transgender advocacy I feel she reaches the notability level for a Wikipedia article. She is also an academic in this field. US mainstream media has only covered a handful of transgender figures mostly in the Entertainment field on a national level such as Caitlyn Jenner, Laverna Cox etc. This does not mean that others do not exist in the advocacy and academic field or other fields. --Consciouswanderer (talk) 20:02, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Please do not ascribe to censorship what is really due to beaucracy. Please be advised that name-dropping is a cognitive fault and you haven't made a case based on notablity criteria. Wikipedia includes information about many people regardless of race, gender, socioeconomic status, etc. That the subject does not meet our notability criteria is not an official condemnation of their work nor is it appropriate with your limited experience here to tell us what we should accept. Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 20:21, 21 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I have had the most problems on Wikipedia so far attempting to make entries on people of color. There are those with less notability included on Wikipedia. Though I understand the standards around living persons are different this is a unique case given the field of transgender advocacy is a field that is reaching national prominence as these issues come to light in the United States as well as globally. The US national media has mostly covered only those transgender individuals in the field of Entertainment or celebrity. Other figures of transgender notability have not been covered as frequently by national media though still have accomplishments within their fields. Consciouswanderer (talk) 20:30, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
 * It sounds then that your issue is with the media, not with Wikipedia. If journalists and academics write about transgendered persons we will then have the source material to support articles. You can understand then that we can't write articles without sufficient sources. I wrote the articles about Alonzo Davis and Xuemei Chen, both people of color and neither of which is a celebrity or entertainer. I also wrote an article about Sylvia M. Broadbent, a female scientist. None of these articles was ever nominated for deletion because I was careful in finding the source material before I published the article. I'm still working on sandboxes for female historians Shirleene Robinson and Karen Lindsey because I don't yet have the material I need. Let's also remember that "other stuff exists" isn't a fair argument as much content on Wikipedia ought to be deleted. You could certainly ask to have this entry userfied and continue developing what you have before moving the page back into the article namespace. Perhaps this subject just got published too early. Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 20:49, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
 * She has received mention in several media sources though even if primarily LGBTQ media. The Associated Press has picked up on the story of her appointment by Mayor Megan Barry and it is now an AP Wire story as evidenced by being reported as far away as Miami http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/gay-south-florida/article78798177.html She has also been mentioned in a book by Oxford University Press. Consciouswanderer (talk) 21:04, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

Subject is also notable under the LGBT African Americans category. Consciouswanderer (talk) 20:43, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ethnic groups-related deletion discussions. Consciouswanderer (talk) 20:39, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

Report of subject's appointment to Metro Nashville board has now also been picked up by the Associated Press wire service and is being reported in newspapers in Miami among other places.

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Weak keep/possible delete I'm not sure she is notable outside the LGBT community and her advocacy for their interests. However, she may be. White Arabian Filly  Neigh 14:55, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep She is the first transgender person at all to hold public office in Tennessee. I added the relevant news source to the article. Her coverage passes GNG. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 17:00, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   16:57, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete – Certainly a respectable person, however the only claim to notability seems to be, as pointed out, "she's the first member of a minority group to do this otherwise non-notable thing". Not enough. — JFG talk 17:08, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Comment: Reading the references, this also looks like a case of local WP:FAME around Nashville. — JFG talk 17:13, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete: fails both WP:BLP1E and WP:NPOL. Quis separabit?  14:20, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete as there's still nothing here for any applicable notability, the information about her suggests nothing at all convincing. SwisterTwister   talk  04:50, 5 June 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.