Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mark Okano


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. -- Cirt (talk) 12:31, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Mark Okano

 * – ( View AfD View log  •  )

Independent league player who was never in the MLB farm system. Therefore, not fully professional, and not notable. Muboshgu (talk) 15:51, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The fact that he has played in leagues independent of the MLB farm system does not mean that he is an amateur. Contrary to the elitist attitude of WP:BASEBALL, professional baseball does exist outside of the confines of Major League Baseball. MLB does not have a monopoly on professional baseball. I have no opinion as to whether this particular player is notable or not, but to suggest that an athlete who is paid wages over several years time to play in a league with full schedules and paying fans is not fully professional just because his ultimate boss isn't Emperor Bud Selig is rather condescending and insulting to the athletes, the leagues and their fans. Kinston eagle (talk) 16:14, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
 * He was never regarded highly enough by MLB franchises to be drafted in the many rounds of the MLB draft. He was never signed to play even in Class A in organized baseball.  I never said he was an amateur, only that by the definition of "fully professional" indicating advancing to the highest level possible, he is not notable.  If every person who played for even an independent minor league baseball team is notable, that's setting the bar too low. --Muboshgu (talk) 20:13, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The definition of "fully professional" does not include any mention of "advancing to the highest level possible". Wikipedia's definition of professional in the context of sports is "someone who participates for money. The opposite is amateur, meaning a person who does not play for money, but in an academic (e.g. college football) or other private setting." The people who play in independent leagues participate for money. They are not amateurs. Jim Thorpe played professional baseball with the 1909 Rocky Mount Railroaders. Neither Rocky Mount nor any of the other teams in the Eastern Carolina League were affiliated with any Major League teams. They were independent of MLB, and yet the International Olympic Committee still considered him to be "fully professional" and stripped him of his medals. The New York Times recently ran an article on Eri Yoshida. Yoshida's debut for the Chico Outlaws of the Golden Baseball League was described by the Times as "the first appearance by a woman in American professional baseball since Ila Borders in 2000." This is the same Golden League that Mark Okano has been playing in and that you claim isn't fully professional. I'm sorry, but Wikipedia, the IOC, the New York Times, and Baseball Reference all agree with me that independent leagues can be "fully professional" which is one of the criteria for notability of athletes. If you have an issue with the notability guidelines, please take your issues up there and don't abuse the afd process. This player may be non-notable for other reasons, but he is "fully professional." Kinston eagle (talk) 21:07, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:02, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Baseball-related deletion discussions.  —Muboshgu (talk) 15:54, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Athletes-related deletion discussions.  —Muboshgu (talk) 15:54, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete - lacks significant coverage in sources that are independent of subject. The only sources cited by the article are the league's web site (promotional and not independent of subject) and two statistics sites (by themselves, don't qualify as significant coverage). BRMo (talk) 04:08, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment: I agree with Kinston: "fully professional" means "he lives off the income he makes from doing this". I don't know how much this guy makes, so I can't comment on whether he really is fully pro or not.  Muboshgu says that "If every person who played for even an independent minor league baseball team is notable, that's setting the bar too low".  That may be the case, but then that's a problem with wp:ATHLETE, not with this article. Buddy431 (talk) 16:44, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.


 * Delete per WP:V. Lacks significant coverage in sources that are independent of subject. Gigs (talk) 00:49, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.