Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Martin Cassini


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. Stifle (talk) 09:03, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Martin Cassini

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The subject of this article is a living person and he does not appear to meet notability standards. Also, if you look [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Andreworkney#Have_written_draft._Need_help_formatting_and_uploading_article. here], you will see that the article has been originally written (and by checking the history see that it has been substantially edited) by User:Seeplain. In the linked posting, Seeplain admits that he is writing about himself. He "thought it would be appropriate...to have (his) own Wiki entry." Deletion per WP:Notability and WP:Coatrack. ¢Spender1983 (talk) 03:28, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep - I can see how WP:Coatrack applies to this article. It is also true that this is largely an autobiography. However, WP:AUTO and WP:COATRACK are not necessarily reasons for outright deletion. So the question is notability, as usual. Cassini appears to have published articles himself in pretty respectable outlets and has also been discussed in third person, which is enough notability for me. The relevant references already appear in the article. Of course it should be improved by people who know something about the modern trends in road safety and that's why i added an "expert attention needed" tag to it, which was unfortunately removed. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 07:37, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
 * This is where we differ and why I have nominated for deletion. First, being an author does not automatically confer notability, no matter the outlet. Second, in my review of the references given I do not consider that the mention him in the "third person" in the manner that has been done is enough to establish notability. - ¢Spender1983 (talk) 23:20, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Transportation-related deletion discussions.   -- the wub  "?!"  09:17, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep as notable and sourceable biography. The first few paragraphs need a vigorous planing for appropriate tone, but that's all it needs.  --Lockley (talk) 16:03, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep - The rationale for the entry is that in the Wiki entry on Shared Space, Cassini is listed as one of five proponents. The other four have separate entries, so it seemed to make sense for there to be a separate entry for Cassini too, especially in view of his publications. This is an additional Guardian piece by him: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/sep/21/congestioncharging.london Seeplain (talk) 19:11, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Question - Seeplain, in the nomination above, I give information that I used to conclude that you are Martin Cassini. Since WP:AFD#How to discuss an Article for Deletion requests that people participating in the deletion discussion please disclose if you have a vested interest in the article, I will ask. Are you Martin Cassini? - ¢Spender1983 (talk) 21:12, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Response 1 - Is he a "proponent" of shared space of the same notability as the others listed in that article? I thought not. Two months ago, I researched that and could not find evidence of it. I tagged the entry of Martin Cassini in the list as needing a citation. This is beacuse all of the others on that list are on the official website for Shared Space. Martin Cassini is not. - ¢Spender1983 (talk) 21:12, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Response 2 - WP:Bio does not provide that inclusion in a list in an article in WP confers notability on the person. In fact it says "notability criteria also must be met for a person to be included in a list or general article; in this case, however, the criteria are less stringent". So only the opposite is true. If the biography of Martin Cassini is considered here to be notable enough for a WP article, then he would be notable enough to include in other articles. - ¢Spender1983 (talk) 21:12, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Response 3 - Being an author of articles on a subject does not confer notability. Per WP:BIO, there must be articles and sources which tell us about Martin Cassini in order for him to be considered notable. - ¢Spender1983 (talk) 21:12, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: The material involves a robust critique of standard traffic engineering practice, with humanitarian proposals for change, so a review by a traffic engineer is arguably irrelevant.Seeplain (talk) 19:35, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment - Please read What Wikipedia is not and Neutral point of view. Clearly, a robust critique is not appropriate material for an article. - ¢Spender1983 (talk) 21:12, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions.   —¢Spender1983 (talk) 23:01, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Response 4 - I thought it was self-evident that seeplain is Martin Cassini - made clear at the outset when I was seeking an Adopter. As stated, the motivation was that I saw myself listed as a shared space proponent. I asked an Adopter, Amire80, if a separate entry was warranted, and he thought it was. Then PennySpender came along, who disagrees. Obviously I will abide by whatever is decided. I have no vested interest as such, but I think I have developed new ground in this wide-ranging subject which is being absorbed into mainstream thinking and policy. Other 3rd party references perhaps worth mentioning: I have been quoted as a "traffic expert" by the Daily Express. The Observer Comment editor asked me for a piece which was published. The Evening Standard often contacts me for quotes, as do numerous radio stations. I am quoted and discussed in the forthcoming book, In Search of Elegance, by Matt May, and cited by Tom Vanderbilt as a “fellow traveller”. 91.125.217.6 (talk) 11:56, 13 October 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.