Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Maryam Matar


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. (non-admin closure) User:力 (powera, π,  ν ) 17:28, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Maryam Matar

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

As far as I can tell, this is a run-of-the-mill Emirati bureaucrat and academic. There's no independent secondary coverage of her aside from ridiculous puff pieces by UAE propaganda outlets about one of their own bureaucrats. She does not appear to satisfy the criteria for WP:PROF or WP:POLITICIAN. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 14:04, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Academics and educators, Women,  and United Arab Emirates. Shellwood (talk) 14:17, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
 * ' Keep ' Being the first women government minister in a country with such major gender imbalance makes her seem notable, so I took a quick look on google books which confirms (in addition to the sources in the article already). Some examples that I quickly found, I could find more, but hope you'll reconsider:
 * 1) Pineda, V. S. (2020). Building the Inclusive City. Germany: Springer International Publishing.
 * 2) Forster, N. (2017). A Quiet Revolution? The Rise of Women Managers, Business Owners and Leaders in the Arabian Gulf States. United Kingdom: Cambridge University Press.
 * I'm not saying these two mentions are the slam dunk WP:GNG more saying that there's loads on her out there and we should be looking to improve any deficiencies we see in the article, not deleting it. CT55555 (talk) 16:54, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
 * As far as I can tell, this is not a cabinet position or a ministry, but a government agency set up in 2008 called Community Development Authority. The assertion that she is the first X is sourced to her self-written bios. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 17:04, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
 * The first book mentions Matar off-hand at two points in the book. The second book mentions Matar in a long list of people. This is not substantive RS coverage on which a WP article can be built on. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 17:07, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Additionally, with reference to WP:CREATIVE she has played a major role in creating a major body of work, specifically a daily radio show (as one of the three hosts) and that show has been the subject of more than one independent review about it as evidenced here:
 * https://www.albayan.ae/culture-art/culture/2022-03-31-1.4404702
 * https://web.archive.org/web/20220401201350/https://www.albayan.ae/culture-art/culture/2022-03-31-1.4404702 - last week, about her daily radio show
 * In addition to the above, going back to my WP:GNG assertion, here is more coverage:
 * https://www.hiamag.com/%D9%85%D9%86%D9%88%D8%B9%D8%A7%D8%AA/%D8%A7%D8%AE%D8%A8%D8%A7%D8%B1/1351761-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AF%D9%83%D8%AA%D9%88%D8%B1%D8%A9-%D9%85%D8%B1%D9%8A%D9%85-%D9%85%D8%B7%D8%B1-%D8%A5%D9%86%D8%AC%D8%A7%D8%B2%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D8%A5%D9%85%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%AA%D9%8A%D8%A9-%D9%85%D8%B4%D8%B1%D9%81%D8%A9-%D9%88%D9%85%D8%B4%D9%88%D8%A7%D8%B1-%D8%AD%D8%A7%D9%81%D9%84-%D8%A8%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%86%D8%AC%D8%A7%D8%AD%D8%A7%D8%AA
 * https://www.albayan.ae/health/2022-02-01-1.4359927
 * It seems like I could spend all day copying and pasting articles about her that can easily be found by searching for her name in Arabic in google news. CT55555 (talk) 17:50, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Those are not independent sources. They are published by UAE state owned outlets. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 18:06, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
 * BBC is state funded, but we accept it. Do you know the editorial standard of each of these publications? Can you share more? CT55555 (talk) 18:27, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
 * RS clearly identify the UAE is an authoritarian state where free speech and free media are suppressed. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 18:30, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Do you suppose they have fabricated these articles about her? I don't dispute the poor press freedom, which would be important in terms of political contentious reporting, or lack of reporting. But it seems a bit much to discount everything they print, because if we did, I just wonder if Wikipedia would be completely absent of all Emirati content. I see to have provided what you said was missing. She's all over the news, she's in books, she's in magazines, she's a radio personality known for a daily health show. I've considered your disagreements and remain keep. CT55555 (talk) 18:40, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
 * If you read the articles you've linked to, they are generally vapid puff pieces. There's plenty of RS coverage of Emirati politics and culture, which usually covers Emirati politicians and elites in starkly different ways than the UAE's own press releases. If Wikipedia just mindlessly repeats press releases from authoritarian regimes about the accomplishments and greatness of regime members, then surely the articles fail WP:NPOV? It would be like accepting Breitbart News as a RS for US politics in a situation where most other US news outlets had been banned. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 18:55, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I too have strong feelings about certain governments in the region, but I think if we are to try and be neutral, we need to put them aside. Saying "regime members" suggests otherwise. Whatever our thoughts about why she is notable, the conversation needs to center on if she is notable. There are lots of people who are notable because they got there through means other than democratic process. I think the Breibart comparison is unfair because I think Wikipedia has a specific ruling on it's quality and (I could be guilty of assumptions here, I've never read it) I don't think it profiles scientists. CT55555 (talk) 19:05, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
 * At this point, the only coverage of her are off-hand mentions in RS and then puff pieces by non-independent media. That does not indicate notability, unless the rules get thrown out just to make it easier for UAE elites to get WP pages. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 19:12, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Hmmm. I do actually find that last bit of your point compelling. Currently reflecting... CT55555 (talk) 19:14, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Update: I find your argument persuasive. I've scored out my keep and am abstain for now. I'll see what others say and may recast a !vote CT55555 (talk) 01:45, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   21:31, 15 April 2022 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:37, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment I have started adding in coverage of her work in the media. In addition to the coverage of her awards, she is widely quoted in talking about a range of health/medical topics. DaffodilOcean (talk) 17:52, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep - there is sufficient coverage of her and her work on genetic diseases in independent pieces to allow her to meet WP:GNG. The best sources are the two-page article in Emirates Woman from 2020 and The Arab Weekly. Her work on genetic diseases has been covered in Gulf News, the article by Sarah Townsend in The National (Abu Dhabi), and the article by Asma Ali Zain in The Khaleej Times. Her image in the Zay Initiative is additional coverage. DaffodilOcean (talk) 13:00, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.