Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Massimiliano Caroletti


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus.  Sandstein  07:35, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Massimiliano Caroletti

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The subject of this article does not pass WP:ENT or WP:CREATIVE. Very thin sourcing supporting an article with numerous unsourced claims and no clear notability for anything. Oddly there is no it.wiki article - perhaps already deleted? Mccapra (talk) 16:26, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. Mccapra (talk) 16:26, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. Mccapra (talk) 16:26, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Internet-related deletion discussions. Mccapra (talk) 16:26, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Italy-related deletion discussions. Mccapra (talk) 16:26, 27 May 2020 (UTC)


 * But he is an actor (important role) and a producer (film with awards). Now I add source and information. --87.13.195.175 (talk) 16:59, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Tomorrow I add other informations. --87.13.195.175 (talk) 18:10, 27 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Hi 87.13.195.175 if you are going to add more sources that's great. Please don't add lots and lots of links to Caroletti's own work because that is no help to us.  What we need are discussions or commentary about his work by reliable and independent sources - national press, recognised sector magazines etc.  Not his own own work, not his own PR, not Youtube, not social media, and not interviews with him.  Thanks Mccapra (talk) 18:50, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your help. Now I add new sources and informations. I continue to work for the page. Mary --87.13.195.175 (talk) 09:11, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
 * OK there are now 62 references so this is a clear WP:REFBOMB. Most of these are not reliable independent secondary sources so they don’t help us determine notability. This article has to pass WP:CREATIVE in order to be kept. Mccapra (talk) 12:43, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Now I remove 19 sources, then I continue to work and remove. --87.13.195.175 (talk) 13:43, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Ok, I have put sources for informations just for have different sources, but I didn't know it's a problem. I'm sorry, one or two souces for information are ok? I think that is notability: general manager of 2 football clubs, producer (awards including best producer), actor (also in important roles), etc. These informations have the sources. --87.13.195.175 (talk) 13:24, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Ok thanks. 19 fewer sources is better but still a lot to go through. Looking again at the first source, it seems to be a gossip column piece and the subject is Adrian Mutu, with Caroletti mentioned fairly briefly. The second source us a press release, so useless for notability. The third is an interview, so again no help in establish notability. I’m not going to go through all 45 of them now. These sources can help verify specific details in an article but only sustained coverage in multiple reliable independent sources demonstrates notability. Mccapra (talk) 14:32, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Can you help me? For example: for award (best producer) it's ok?, for important role in Fallo! it's ok, for important role in Taxi Lovers it's ok? For understand what sources I put. Thanks for your help. Good evening. See you tomorrow. --87.13.195.175 (talk) 17:54, 29 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Ok of the three we’re looking at now the BAFF award is good. I don’t think it’s enough on its own to demonstrate notability but it certainly helps. Your second link verifies that Caroletti had a role in Fallo! but for that to help with notability we need an independent critical review discussing his acting in that role. Lots of people have lots of roles in lots of films. That gets them into IMDb but it doesn’t get them into Wikipedia. Again, your third one verifies that he had a role in Taxi Lovers, but that fact is not in doubt. What is in doubt is whether that matters. Who has discussed his role in that film? Where is the commentary about it? The conclusion is that he is not going to have an entry on Wikipedia just because he’s done lots of stuff. He will get an article if he has done stuff that other people have discussed in some depth. What we need to see is those discussions, along with prizes or significant news  coverage. Good luck! Mccapra (talk) 18:48, 29 May 2020 (UTC)


 * And for sport, for general manager and director marketing there are sources (for example 33, 35 or 29,30) ok? --87.13.195.175 (talk) 07:45, 30 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Well I'm just going to tell you the same thing again. You really need to be clear about the difference between WP:VERIFY and WP:BIO.  Tens of millions of people are mentioned here, quoted there, and get their picture in a newspaper from time to time, but Wikipedia is not interested in that.  It is interested only in the very small number of people who have done really important things.  Of the references you ask about, 29 and 30 briefly verify that Caroletti was the marketing manager of Szombathelyi Haladas, but the question is, so what? Every football club has a marketing manager, they all do more or less the same thing, and there is nothing inherently notable about what they do. From time to time an individual marketing manager of a football club may do something absolutely amazing, and be responsible for campaigns that double the number of subscribers, triple revenue, or establish a club's brand in a new continent.  If they do this, there will be extensive discussion about them in the marketing press and in the football press, talking about the exceptional thing they have done.  That discussion could show that they were notable just for being a football marketing manager.  A couple of name-checks here and there mentioning them as the marketing manager is of no use for establishing notability.  References 33 and 35 are about Caroletti's role as club manager.  These are much more likely to be useful in demonstrating notability and if you can add more sources (not just quick name-checks) demonstrating that there is significant independent discussion of his role as manager, that will certainly help support a case for keeping the article.  I must say that as I've searched for sources about him I've found a lot, but it is mostly trivia, and he seems to be famous largely in the world of gossip magazines because he is married to Eva Henger. Mccapra (talk) 09:08, 30 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Ok I understand: director marketing is a minor job; I work on other jobs. Thanks for WP:BIO but I don't try produder (film, video...) and general manager (sport), where are?. Now I put 2 source 1 and 2. Thank you! --87.13.195.175 (talk) 10:03, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I put this information, I think that it's important. Mary --87.13.195.175 (talk) 11:41, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi thanks for continuing to work on this. I’ve said enough in this discussion so no more from me now and I’m going to leave it to others to share their views.  All the best Mccapra (talk) 19:30, 30 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Note to closer for soft deletion: This nomination has had limited participation and falls within the standards set for lack of quorum. There are no previous AfD discussions, undeletions, or current redirects and no previous PRODs have been located. This nomination may be eligible for soft deletion at the end of its 7-day listing. --Cewbot (talk) 00:03, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Logs:

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep: Per WP:HEY. Article has been cleaned up and improved, it's good enough to pass WP:CREATIVE. My vote stands. ASTIG😎  (ICE T • ICE CUBE) 03:39, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, 78.26  (spin me / revolutions) 14:55, 4 June 2020 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Keep Imho the subject is notable (thanks User:Superastig for cite WP:HEY); before I had written a small article (with few references) but now I rewrote the page and I think that it’s a complete article, look differences here. In his career he was awarded best producer here (reference 7). There are important jobs as general manager or owner (football) (references 15, 34-35-36, 37-38), producer (with his films participated to important festivals for example this (references 17, 9), this (reference 16) or producer television programs, sit-com or others), he have important roles as actor. There are main jobs and minor, considering everything, the subject is notable (imho). I write "keep" now because now I have finished working for sources and informations but I add "stub" because I don't know if I added all informations. Thanks for all (for patience and explanations - User:Mccapra). Mary. --87.13.195.175 (talk) 10:19, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz Humbug! 06:53, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
 * It is not clear to me which criteria of WP:CREATIVE is claiming the subject meets. The many references in the article means that it would likely take some time to review, but as of revision 963434051, the references consist of 1. Press release 2. Interview 3. Interview 4. Database entry of film 5. Ditto 6. Yearbook (also database-ish) 7. Award, but does not appear to meet well known and significant 8. Film nominated for award 9. Ditto. (I think I'll look at the rest sources in 4 batches of 9) Alpha3031 (t • c) 05:03, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm more or less convinced now that there's insufficient coverage in usual places (google news results, etc) that isn't passing mentions, tabloid stuff about his wife or essentially directory listings of his films. re. it.wiki, it's been speedied twice there, but I don't think that's relevant, since our version is certainly improved and does not meet speedy criteria, theirs or ours. I am unable to verify that any of his films have been the primary subject of a notable work or of multiple substantial independent articles or reviews, or that they have otherwise attracted significant critical attention. Nor does he seem to meet the other two criteria of WP:CREATIVE. I don't see how this person can be notable per our criteria, and I don't think restoring the redirect to Éva Henger is appropriate either, even though that seems to be the source of most of the passing mentions. I see no option but delete. Alpha3031 (t • c) 06:16, 20 June 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.