Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Matched betting (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. --  Phantom Steve / talk &#124; contribs \ 05:45, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Matched betting
AfDs for this article: 
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No reliable sources can be found for this term. Don't redirect to betting exchange because they're not that strongly related. Maybe needs salting afterwards because it keeps being recreated. Christopher Connor (talk) 17:42, 27 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Speedy redirect to betting exchange per previous AfD result, and it would seem to be a more common usage of the term. Indef protection maybe required to prevent recreation, since temporary protection was obviously ineffective. wjemather bigissue 18:36, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Redirect to arbitrage betting. Concept seems to be covered there. wjemather bigissue 14:56, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Games-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 20:46, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Would strongly object to the deletion of this article. Please do your research thoroughly first, before suggesting that there are no reliable sources for this term.

Matched betting is a well-known term which is commonly used in by professionals. There are reliable sources, including:

The Guardian, a UK National Newspaper http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/jun/05/free-world-cup-bets-bookmakers http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/jul/24/free-bets-bookies

MoneySavingExpert.com, the most popular personal finance website in the UK http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=325861

Other sources which use this term include: http://www.money-for-nothing.info/2009/03/ive-discovered-matched-betting.html http://www.stoozing.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1207161554/150 http://www.freebetoffers.co.uk/online-betting/matched-betting.htm http://www.betgem.com/Matched_Betting.html http://www.beatbookie.net/betting-guides/risk-free-matched-betting-guide/ http://winningbetfair.com/matched-betting-the-safest-way-to-make-money-from-betting http://www.offthepost.info/2010/11/beat-the-bookies-with-matched-bets-and-freebets4all/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sonyhamster (talk • contribs) 11:56, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Only the Guardian sources qualify as reliable sources. The second of those though isn't so bad even if it is a bit spammy and simple. There isn't much there to construct an article without going into OR territory--like many of the gambling articles. It may well be used by people but the intricacies of betting isn't really well-covered by RS's and that is supposed to be reflected here. Less inclined to delete now though. Christopher Connor (talk) 13:50, 1 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Agreed Christopher, the Guardian is a very reliable source. I wouldn't immediately knock Moneysavingexpert as it is a collective effort that requires individual judgement, like with all collaborative works or threads. It is worth noting that the term 'matched betting' is widely used amongst individuals - whether they are gamblers or not. Since there is no other term that is used for matched betting, and indeed nor does this significantly relate to anything else, I would strongly recommend that this is not deleted for benefit or reference to others. 20:31, 1 December 2010 (GMT)
 * Firstly, the forums on moneysavingexpert.com are in no way a reliable source. Secondly, the first line of the article states "also referred in the United States as double betting", so evidently there is another term for it. Thirdly, the term "matched betting" also refers to the way betting exchanges match backers to layers. Finally, while the concept is described almost entirely in forums, blogs and promotional websites, there is no way this will pass verifiability requirements on its own. One brief mention in The Guardian and an equally short follow-up article just isn't going to do it. wjemather bigissue 20:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment. This topic is already covered by the article with the more common name (at least in the UK), arbitrage betting. Phil Bridger (talk) 20:46, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Was not aware of that article's existance. Perhaps an improved/expanded section and a redirect to there may be a better option. wjemather bigissue 20:58, 1 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Response. Many thanks for your comment. I'm afraid I will have to disagree with you, as matched betting is strictly not arbitrage betting and must not be confused. The two are completely different methodologies. Matched betting in this context refers to taking advantage of free bookmaker offers, by qualifying for them and turning them into cash by hedging against any loss so that there is a guaranteed profit. It is based on the concept that you use a betting exchange to hedge losses and as the free bet is not your own money, you can make a profit.


 * Arbitrage is the practice where individuals would take advantage of a price differential between two or more markets. By doing this, individuals can profit on the imbalance. It is a simple case of supply and demand - individuals identify a market which is prepared to pay a higher price for a utility (economics term) and identifies a market that offers that at a lower price. They then simply buy lower and sell high, making the percentage margin.


 * Thus in arbitrage, the profit comes from the difference in margin. However in matched betting, the profit comes from turning the free bet into with-drawable cash by hedging any losses - so that if the bet at the bookmaker loses, the betting exchange pays out, and vice versa.


 * If you look at the example given in the article, the mathematics and methodologies of matched betting is different to that of arbitrage. However, given this comment, I would suggest adding a line in noting that this should not be confused with arbitrage betting.
 * Sorry, but what is described in this article is a form of arbing with the effective price in one of the markets involved being influenced by a free bet offer. It is described at Arbitrage betting. Phil Bridger (talk) 18:14, 2 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, that's the section I was thinking about. Still desparately short of reliable sources though. wjemather bigissue 19:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   08:32, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Response. Although the description in [[Arbitrage betting#Bonus sports arbitrage] describes what is on this article, I would argue that it is incorrect. Arbitrage, as Wikipedia clearly states on its opening sentence, is "Betting arbitrage, miraclebets, surebets, sports arbitraging is a particular case of arbitrage on betting markets due to either bookmakers' different opinions on event outcomes or plain errors."


 * However, free offer Matched betting, as described in this article, does not rely on bookmakers different opinions (quite the opposite in fact as it seeks consensus on similar odds - the closer, the better), nor does it rely on errors. Ergo Matched betting cannot be arbitrage of any kind. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sonyhamster (talk • contribs) 10:57, 6 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Update. I would also like to bring to the attention of everyone contributing within this discussion, an article published today in the Daily Telegraph, which references 'Matched Betting' as a term used to describe this method of converting offers into cash. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/consumertips/8185280/Is-this-a-bet-you-cant-lose.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sonyhamster (talk • contribs) 10:46, 7 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Agree with the above comment. The article referenced is recent and from a credible source and it would appear that matched betting is clearly a commonly used term. Given the recent addition regarding 'industry reactions' which gives this contribution sufficient depth, I would suggest that this contribution is remains. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.42.98 (talk) 22:32, 7 December 2010 (UTC)


 * That articledoes not go into depth (just a general overview), borders on being an advert for Carl Scott-Brown's website, and barely touches on industry reactions (a WilHill spokesperson intimates they couldn't care less). We are still no where near the significant coverage required by the general notability guideline. wjemather bigissue 20:02, 9 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Whilst it's a general overview, it is one of the more informative pieces you will ever find within the mainstream media along with the Guardian piece. Also, it is not an advert for Scott-Brown's website, rather as it is an editorial piece about it. We should disregard references to the website and extract the research that the journalist has done - for example, the risks of matched betting, the fact that it is legal and that bookmakers don't have a problem with it. The user suggests 'a WilHil spokesperson intimates they couldn't care less', when the article clearly says 'the industry does not have a problem with [matched betting]. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sonyhamster (talk • contribs) 09:41, 10 December 2010


 * Comment. Having done some more research, "matched betting" follows generally the same process as arbitrage betting with one difference – the use of free bets, which negates the requirement to find mis-matched odds. As such I further ensorse my !vote above and say again that this can be adequately covered in an expanded section in the arbitrage betting article. <sub style="color:#007700;">wjemather <sup style="color:#ff8040;">bigissue 20:02, 9 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Again, please sign any comments appropriately. The reference arbitrage betting does not correspond with the definition on the page as "Betting arbitrage, miraclebets, surebets, sports arbitraging is a particular case of arbitrage on betting markets due to either bookmakers' different opinions on event outcomes or plain errors.". Whilst the existing reference can be developed, the size of the page would become significant and not cover the concept (with an example) in the depth it has here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sonyhamster (talk • contribs) 09:41, 10 December 2010


 * You're right, this article as it stands contains far too much instructional content. I have added the appropriate tag. <sub style="color:#007700;">wjemather <sup style="color:#ff8040;">bigissue 15:42, 10 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your comment. I take your point and I will see how this could be edited, although the 'how to' content is merely an example to present the concept of matched betting as simple as possible. Any thoughts or comments would of course, be appreciated. Sonyhamster (talk) 22:17, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.