Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Matt Marshall (politician)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Disregarding the socks and/or meatpuppets, there is consensus that he's not currently notable enough for an article. It's up to editors (genuine editors, not people associated with Marshall) about whether some content about him should be added to The Washington State Three Percenters.  Sandstein  07:32, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Matt Marshall (politician)

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Doesn't meet the notability guideline for politicians or the general notability guideline. Marshall has been the subject of slightly more press attention than most school board members running for state legislatures, and is occasionally quoted in reliable sources as a spokesperson for his organisation, but neither amounts to significant coverage. (This was prodded a month ago by SounderBruce and deprodded by the article creator.) – Arms & Hearts (talk) 20:24, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 20:24, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 20:24, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Washington-related deletion discussions. – Arms & Hearts (talk) 20:24, 23 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Speedy delete Article is blatantly just his own campaign material and blatantly fails NPOL. Reywas92Talk 22:25, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete. Fails WP:NPOL. Article reads like a campaign brochure. Lefcentreright  Talk  (plz ping) 13:37, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete. Neither being a school board trustee nor being an as yet unelected candidate in a state legislature election are notability claims that get a person into Wikipedia — a person passes our inclusion criteria for politicians by holding a notable political office, not just by running for one. But there's no credible claim of preexisting notability for other reasons independent of the candidacy, the amount of coverage shown here is not enough to make his candidacy markedly more special than everybody else's candidacies, and the article is written more like a campaign brochure than like a neutral or objective encyclopedia article. As always, no prejudice against recreation after election day if he wins, but nothing here is enough to already get him a Wikipedia article today. Bearcat (talk) 15:52, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete A clear case of WP:TOOSOON for me. --Dreamanderson (talk) 18:07, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Don't Delete Marshall is the founder of the controversial group, The Washington State Three Percenters; he is a staunch supporter of Matt Shea, who was involved a scandal; he is leading a grassroots movement to remove the State Attorney General Bob Ferguson from office; and he is running for State Representative.


 * Wikipedia guidelines state, “Notability requires only the existence of suitable independent, reliable sources, not their immediate presence or citation in an article.” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability#General_notability_guideline)


 * Below is a list of articles where Marshall is discussed, and sometimes the topic of the article. These are all from all suitable, independent sources that I believe are sufficiently reliable for the purpose showing notability.


 * At least two (NPR and The Guardian) are discussed on Wikipedia’s Project Page. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources)  The Guardian is considered reliable.  NPR is generally considered reliable, although with the caveat that the discussions of its reliability are “dated.”  Regardless, it seems the fact that NPR is writing about Matt Marshall supports claims that this is notable subject.


 * Other sources are not listed on the page, but obviously the list is not meant to be an all inclusive list.


 * The Olympian, The News Tribune and The Seattle Times all have Wikipedia pages and have been around since the 1800’s. The fact that they are writing about Marshall shows notability.

Mary Wilkes (talk) 18:35, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
 * The other sources are mostly smaller papers, and one or two might not indicate notability, but there are a lot of them.
 * https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/article231976082.html
 * http://www.yelmonline.com/news/article_0d953cfa-42e3-11ea-bbb3-8f3b8abd8480.html
 * http://www.yelmonline.com/news/article_c6874ad0-3d7c-11ea-96e6-db58294c8977.html
 * https://www.inlander.com/spokane/gun-toting-shea-supporters-prompt-democratic-proposal-to-restrict-guns-in-washington-state-capitol/Content?oid=19046405
 * https://www.theolympian.com/news/politics-government/article239335908.html
 * https://www.seattleweekly.com/news/black-diamond-council-member-identified-as-a-three-percenter-what-does-that-mean/
 * https://www.seattletimes.com/subscribe/signup-offers/?pw=redirect&subsource=paywall&return=https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/at-gun-rights-rally-washington-state-rep-matt-shea-gives-fiery-defense-talks-of-nations-real-enemies/
 * http://www.thereflector.com/news/article_2779f0ac-f4e8-5de5-9761-4e85ff92c1e4.html
 * https://lmtribune.com/northwest/rep-matt-shea-talks-of-nation-s-real-enemies/article_f196f233-272e-50cb-ad6b-2441dd777505.html
 * https://tdn.com/news/local/pro-second-amendment-groups-encourage-adoption-of-sanctuary-ordinances/article_c8323b02-fddd-5b37-a363-27cd4ef89874.html
 * https://www.scribd.com/article/447080380/Not-A-Paramilitary-Inside-A-Washington-Militia-s-Efforts-To-Go-Mainstream
 * https://chewelahindependent.com/gun-rights-advocates-rally-at-washington-capitol/
 * http://www.gazette-tribune.com/news/gun-rights-advocates-rally-at-capitol/79705/
 * Political candidates are not exempted from having to pass WP:NPOL just because some campaign coverage exists — some campaign coverage always exists for every candidate in every election everywhere, because local media have a legal obligation to give coverage to all candidates in all elections in their coverage areas. So the key to exempting a political candidate from having to win the election first is not just to show that some campaign coverage exists, it's to show that his candidacy is so much more special than everybody else's candidacy that even if he died tomorrow and thus never accomplished anything else he would still pass the ten year test for enduring significance anyway. Keeping an article about every single person who ever ran for any political office in the world is not our job: we keep articles about holders of notable political offices, not unelected candidates for them, so candidates are not automatically exempted from having to win the election and thereby hold the office just because some campaign coverage exists.
 * People are also not notable just because their name gets mentioned in coverage of other things, nor are they notable just for leading recall campaigns or for supporting other people. Bearcat (talk) 23:30, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Bearcat (talk) Thank you for your feedback on this article. However, I think you misunderstood. I don’t find Marshall notable just because he is running for office.  There are a lot of people running for office. I find Marshall notable because of his political activism.  Five of the articles I found about Marshall don’t even mention that he is running for office.


 * I am not the only one to find Marshall notable. The Guardian wrote two articles (I said one earlier, but I found another) about Marshall almost a full year before he announced he was running for Washington State Congress. The Guardian is not some local newspaper.  It is a 200-year old British newspaper.  I would argue that if a prestigious foreign newspaper is writing multiple articles about a person, that is pretty notable.


 * https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/03/three-percent-far-right-leftwing-gun-groups


 * https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/feb/22/washington-state-county-sheriffs-refuse-to-enforce-gun-laws


 * Even the NPR article, which was written about a month after Marshall announce his campaign barely mentioned his run for office. (It is mentioned in paragraph 15 of the article.)


 * https://www.npr.org/2020/02/14/805949683/-not-a-paramilitary-inside-a-washington-militias-efforts-to-go-mainstream

Mary Wilkes (talk) 04:28, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep or Redirect to Washington State Three Percenters. At this moment, the subject fails WP:NPOL. That said, it is hard to see how the subject does not pass WP:GNG with the combination of the NPR feature, international coverage of the movement in the Guardian and the local press (both of the subject's school board run and the subject's challenge to the Republican leader in the Washington State House of Representatives). Even if the consensus is that the subject is WP:TOOSOON, there is not question that the subject is associated with the Washington State Three Percenters and this page should redirect to the movement. --Enos733 (talk) 04:53, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:NPOL and WP:TOOSOON and then redirect Washington State Three Percenters. Best, GPL93 (talk) 15:51, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep Nothing in this article violates ANY policy or terms. This article contains factual information regarding a person of notoriety. There are people who support him and people who do not support him. Regardless of support, that reason alone does not constitute removing information about a person. The call to remove the information is simply a smear campaign by those who are opposed to this person referenced, and that in itself does NOT justify removal by Wikipedia's Terms or Policies. JamesQuayle3 (talk)
 * Note. This user has made few or no other edits outside of this Afd. GPL93 (talk) 20:35, 26 March 2020 (UTC)


 * keep I find this article notable. Matt Marshall has begun making an impression in Washington State. People from all political beliefs are learning his name and what he stands for. This is an important figure to have accessible information to. The articla in noo way infringes on Wikipedia's policies of conduct. SteveTheScholar (talk)
 * Note. This user has made few or no other edits outside of this Afd. GPL93 (talk) 20:35, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

The minimum it requires is per WP:NPOL states “Major local political figures who have received significant press coverage” and Matt marshal falls into these lines as there are many independent articles that prove that Matt Marshall has had significant and still has significant attention both independentally and politically. As per, http://www.yelmonline.com/news/article_c6874ad0-3d7c-11ea-96e6-db58294c8977.html https://www.inlander.com/spokane/gun-toting-shea-supporters-prompt-democratic-proposal-to-restrict-guns-in-washington-state-capitol/Content?oid=19046405 http://www.thereflector.com/news/article_2779f0ac-f4e8-5de5-9761-4e85ff92c1e4.html https://lmtribune.com/northwest/rep-matt-shea-talks-of-nation-s-real-enemies/article_f196f233-272e-50cb-ad6b-2 https://www.scribd.com/article/447080380/Not-A-Paramilitary-Inside-A-Washington-Militia-s-Efforts-To-Go-Mainstream https://www.theolympian.com/news/politics-government/article239335908.html https://www.seattleweekly.com/news/black-diamond-council-member-identified-as-a-three-percenter-what-does-that-mean/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Das360011 (talk • contribs) 22:42, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep I find that this article follows guidelines on being notable. While some may argue in Privous comments like “article reads like a campaign brochure” or that the person this article is about is “neither being a school board trustee nor being an as yet unelected candidate in a state legislature election are notability claims that get a person into Wikipedia” these arguments are not sufficient to remove this article per WP:N As this article isn’t a advertisement, or a self promotion. And per WP:NTEMP states that notability isn’t temporary. And in the guidline per WP:N it dose not require the person to have held or is holding any type of office
 * Note. This user has made few or no other edits outside of this Afd. GPL93 (talk) 23:25, 26 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep The article is well written, factual, informative, and within Wikipedia policies and guidelines. Matt Marshall is well known in Washington State for his exemplary military service, his political activities, and staunch support of individual rights. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bgbies (talk • contribs) 22:55, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Note. This user has made few or no other edits outside of this Afd. GPL93 (talk) 23:25, 26 March 2020 (UTC)


 * '"keep'"
 * Merge or Redirect to Washington State Three Percenters. Most of the coverage revolves around his association with the group he founded. The article would need serious work if kept and it seems there is a bit of REFBOMBing going on here. I think we should probably just redirect until the election; if he wins, we can recreate it. ~ EDDY  ( talk / contribs )~ 23:44, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep I know Matt personally and believe this page is an accurate representation of him and his work. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lbo360 (talk • contribs) 18:05, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Note. This user has made few or no other edits outside of this Afd. GPL93 (talk) 19:33, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia does not keep articles just because random people assert that they know the subject personally. We keep or delete articles based on whether the subject clears our notability criteria or not. Bearcat (talk) 19:27, 28 March 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.