Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Matt Oliver


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. T. Canens (talk) 18:30, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Matt Oliver

 * – ( View AfD View log  Stats )

Appears to be NN musician. References are a couple in depth, but are also single line mentions, quotes, or do not mention article subject. Perhaps being a member of Sound Team may provide notability. red dogsix (talk) 04:19, 28 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep - This article's subject is a notable musician and producer, having received significant coverage in reliable international sources that are independent of the subject. There does exist verifiable, objective evidence that the subject has received significant attention from independent sources that supports this claim. Here are a few external links to major media outlets that discuss the subject's work at length:
 * http://web.archive.org/web/20060617092459/http://www.austin360.com/music/content/music/stories/xl/2006/06/8cds.html
 * http://www.austinchronicle.com/daily/music/2014-02-05/sound-teams-marathon/
 * http://www.austinchronicle.com/calendar/music/event-434178/
 * http://www.austinchronicle.com/music/2006-06-09/373254/
 * http://www.dailydot.com/entertainment/daytrotter-matt-oliver-countdown/
 * http://pitchfork.com/tv/39-pitchfork-nightcap/1182-peter-matthew-bauer-fortune-tellers/
 * http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/apr/12/bop-english-constant-bop-review-deliriously-easy-to-listen-to
 * http://diymag.com/2015/05/01/bop-english-my-bills-on-this-recording-started-to-get-unreasonable
 * Yogaball (talk) 04:25, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Having founded the band Sound Team does provide notability. Additionally, the subject is affiliated with The Walkmen, White Denim, and numerous other large touring acts with national and international followings for whom he has engineered recordings or with whom he has collaborated. Yogaball (talk) 04:38, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Several valid sources have been added to the article that seem to nullify the NPP's nomination for AfD. Subject's notability seems verifiable enough. Article doesn't seem to meet WP:DEL-REASON. Please let me know how the article can be improved.Yogaball (talk) 19:16, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
 * This article also meets criteria for WP:MUSICBIOYogaball (talk) 03:21, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:54, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Texas-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:54, 29 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Delete. Found no evidence the subject has received extensive coverage in independent and reliable sources. He hasn't received any significant awards nor chart placements. Regardless of who he's played with, if the subject is non-notable by himself, then a separate article is not merited. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 21:49, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for sharing your thoughts FoCuSandLeArN. It's true that the subject's major label work was a commercial failure and didn't chart (which, you could argue, also actually contributes to notability since it was the subject of a huge amount of hype and backlash, , but just wanted to point out that per WP:MUSICBIO, the "musician...may be notable if they meet "at least one of the following criteria". This subject meets (#5 and #12) in my estimation. Also, did you check out any of the links above? The Pitchfork link is a video in which the subject performs, there's plenty of coverage in the Austin Chronicle and the Austin American-Statesman, and there is a feature on his work as a producer in the Daily Dot. The Guardian and DIY mag mentions are non-trivial and even though he's not the primary subject and mentioned as a producer, it still seems to meet criteria 1 of WP:MUSICBIO there. Please let me know your thoughts.Yogaball (talk) 14:17, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
 * No, not charting does not contribute towards notability in this case because he still didn't receive extensive coverage because of it. Your sources 1 & 2 above: 1) is extremely trivial; 2) is trivial as well, the article being about the band, not Matt. As for MUSICBIO criteria #5 and #12: no, the releases have been of the band, not Matt's; no reliable evidence for #12, again of Matt per se. The Pitchfork video doesn't substantiate anything, it's just a performance video. Austin Chronicle and Statesman have a combined circulation of 200k, they are local sources. The Guardian source does not mention him once. DIY mentions him once trivially. The Dot's citation may be the single good source you've provided, but again it doesn't constitute extensive coverage given it's the only good source. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 15:37, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Appreciate your following up to clarify. We may just never see exactly eye-to-eye on this one. But I'm glad we can agree that there is significant, non-trivial and reliable coverage of the article's subject (WP:GNG, WP:MUSICBIO) in the Daily Dot feature. I'd point out further that Matt's work as a producer certainly meets criteria 5 of WP:NALBUMS ("The recording was performed in a medium that is notable, e.g., a theme for a network television show, performance in a television show or notable film, inclusion on a notable compilation album, etc."), since many of the albums he has performed on, produced, and/or mixed have been released on large independents and major labels. This article meets GNG and in my estimation improves Wikipedia. However, I'm not seeing anything in the Notability guidelines in WP:MUSICBIO or WP:BIO that calls for a subject's coverage to be "extensive," which is a point I see you coming back to repeatedly to defend your position. Can you point me to a specific Wikipedia guideline that requires the coverage be "extensive"? Because I don't see that anywhere. Thanks Yogaball (talk) 20:03, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Natg 19 (talk) 00:23, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Merge to Sound Team. His post-Sound Team activities can easily be covered in that article. --Michig (talk) 09:44, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the suggestion. But I think that his post-Sound Team activities don't fit easily or conveniently in the Sound Team article since those activities occurred after the band's dissolution; at the very least, it's awkward. It seems much more clear and comprehensible for the layperson to have a separate article, so I'm still pushing for a Keep here, based on the reasons listed above (conforms to WP:MUSICBIO, WP:GNG, and probably shouldn't have been listed as an AfD in the first place per WP:NOT42), and based on the sheer breadth and scope of the work he's done after the Sound Team break-up. I'm trying to update the article to reflect that, but it's slow going because there's a lot. Yogaball (talk) 18:52, 5 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment - You do realize adding a series of "references" that are only single mentions of the article subject do little to improve Notability of the article subject. red dogsix (talk) 03:50, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I figured since the aim is creating an encyclopedia here, the discography should be...encyclopedic. The article's subject's recorded output is voluminous and the artists he has worked with are well-established. But I also added an additional link to an article in Paste about his work as a songwriter in his own band (not in Sound Team) to bolster what I've already shown above w/r/t GNG and WP:MUSICBIO here:, and will add more as time allows.Yogaball (talk) 04:59, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Also, this . Yogaball (talk) 05:18, 6 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Comment - I realize that it may be convoluted to sift through above, so for anyone just joining the discussion, my argument for Keep is based on the following:
 * -Meets WP:MUSICBIO Criteria 6 ("has been a reasonably prominent member of two or more independently notable ensembles").
 * -Meets WP:MUSICBIO Criteria 1 via ,,, and
 * -Meets WP:MUSICBIO Criteria 10 ("performed music for a work of media that is notable, e.g., a theme for a network television show, performance in a television show or notable film, inclusion on a notable compilation album") via . (NB: Matt is not the central focus of that video performance, but the criteria doesn't state that as a requirement and thus, seems to be satisfied here.)
 * -Thus, article's subject satisfies GNG requirement.


 * -Lastly, Merging into Sound Team seems awkward as almost all of the activity (especially his activity as a producer) under consideration has taken place after that band's dissolution. I base this line of reasoning on considerations around how to make the topic understandable to a layperson. I welcome any advice or tips on how to improve the article, so please let me know. Thanks. Yogaball (talk) 00:36, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –  Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 00:32, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Weak keep - The subject seems to have sufficient coverage to meet MUSICBIO criterion 1 and arguably also 5 and perhaps 4.--Rpclod (talk) 03:35, 13 August 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.