Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Matt Oswalt


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Closing with no prejudice against speedy renomination per relatively low participation herein. Despite the lengthy commentary, it only occurred between the nominator and one user opining for the article to be retained. North America1000 06:55, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

Matt Oswalt

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 * Being someone's brother is not a path to notability and while he may have had an extensive career, he fails to meet the criteria in WP:GNG, WP:BIO, and WP:N. The article lacks WP:SECONDARY support and does not have significant in-depth support.  red dogsix (talk) 22:17, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Being someone's brother is not a path to notability and while he may have had an extensive career, he fails to meet the criteria in WP:GNG, WP:BIO, and WP:N. The article lacks WP:SECONDARY support and does not have significant in-depth support.  red dogsix (talk) 22:17, 21 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Hi, I wrote this on the original talk page when asked to defend the page, so I am going to just copy and paste it here -


 * This article should not be speedily deleted for lack of asserted importance because...


 * (Matt Oswalt is the brother of one of the most famous comedians in America, but has also had a notable career all on his own. He has produced a number of series featuring the biggest names in comedy, including the late Robin Williams, and is continuing to do so. He has attended award shows nobody other than those at the peak of fame are able to attend. I find it incredibly hasty to just delete this page, which is credibly sourced by a number of highly reputable sources including The AV Club, SplitSider, MSN, HuffPo, and MTV. If this does not meet notability standards, I'm not sure how much more success this guy would need to have in order to do so.--PaulTheAirplane (talk) 23:06, 21 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Comment - Please tell us how he meets any of the criteria in WP:GNG, WP:BIO, or WP:N.


 * Being someone's brother is not a reason to be that included in Wikipedia.
 * Being a producer is also not a path to inclusion.
 * Attending award supports nothing in the Wikipedia criteria for inclusion.
 * The references are not in-depth or significant to support inclusion. red dogsix (talk) 17:19, 22 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Comment, Importance


 * First and foremost, I want to be clear that I'm not trying to make the claim that his brother is what makes him notable. He has undeniable success all on his own and has worked within the comedy community alongside important figures for years and years as a contemporary, and not as a tag-along brother of a more famous sibling.


 * As well, I'm not saying he has merely been a producer. He has rather been a "showrunner" if you will, appearing onscreen in each episode of his Puddin' Strip program, which, again, featured a large number of comedians and actors that have all been deemed "notable" enough for Wikipedia with careers highly similar to the one Matt Oswalt has had. WP:ENTERTAINER


 * Furthermore, your outright dismissal of the sources is rather unhelpful. I've included 14 separate articles that all comfortably pass the threshold of credibility, a number of which do indeed speak *at length* about his work and career. These are not personal blogs I am citing. These are industry publications like AV Club, SplitSider, Huffington Post, MTV, Salon, and Complex. He's appeared on highly notable programs on basic cable alongside highly notable public figures for years and years. That alone qualifies as "verifiable, objective evidence that the subject has received significant attention from independent sources to support a claim of notability." WP:SIGCOV. It's also proof that this is not "temporary" notability. WP:NOTTEMPORARY


 * As of now, it seems rather obvious we aren't going to come to an agreement, because you, RedDogSix, seem to have made up your mind immediately, and obviously I want this article kept because I wrote it. But upon referring to the edit history, user Ritchie333 also deemed this notable enough to remove the initial speedy deletion tag. If nothing else, It would be incredibly unfair for the fate of this article to rest in RedDogSix's hands because he has a clear bias which as of yet has not been reflected by anybody else. This user is the only person proposing a deletion. It is crucial that we get other opinions before making a decision.


 * But to be honest, and I've stated why, this doesn't even meet the criteria for deletion, let alone SPEEDY deletion. That's simply hasty and unproductive.


 * And as a last note, I want to state that I do not know Matt Oswalt personally. I have interacted with him perhaps twice on the internet, and I consider myself a fan. He does not know who I am, of this I am sure, so the tag about "having a close connection" is false and should be removed. --PaulTheAirplane (talk) 00:32, 23 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Comment - Lets see if I can address your comments:
 * When an article mentions in the first paragraph, "... [he is] best known for being the younger brother of comedian Patton Oswalt," that sure implies his Wikipedia notability is based on his brother.


 * You cite WP:ENTERTAINER; however the individual fails to meet the criteria in that notability guideline.


 * The references you have provided do not provide in-depth coverage, they are little le more than passing mentions.


 * You have misinterpreted Ritchie333 removal of the CSD, the bar to remove a A7 is relatively low and does not insure the notability of the article. Ritchie333 Was only indicating an A7 was not appropriate, and did not comment on overall appropriateness of keeping the article.


 * You say I have made up my mind about the article, you are correct in that I have given my opinion the subject does not have adequate referential support to warrant an article, not if the article should survive if adequate references were to be found. If you want the article to survive, I suggest you provide adequate references, without better referencing, it will probably be deleted.


 * No one has said you know the article subject; however, if you have been in contact with him as indicated by the picture, it shows there may be a conflict of interest.  red dogsix</i> (talk) 01:04, 25 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Okay, so you say he doesn't meet the criteria of WP:ENTERTAINER. While I find that criteria all a matter of opinion anyway, allow me to explain why I feel he fits. By the numbers, he has 118,000 unique followers on a verified account who frequently interact, myself included. I consider this an instance of having "a large fan base or a significant "cult" following."


 * As for his having "made unique, prolific or innovative contributions to a field of entertainment," his work has been covered extensively by SplitSider, Salon, Huffington Post, Complex, MSN, and The AV Club. These articles are not just passing mentions as you inaccurately claim. And whereas the other articles are perhaps from slightly less notable publications, he is still the subject of them and not just merely mentioned. Topics covered in these articles include two programs he created, wrote, produced, and appeared in - both of which had appearances by A-list celebrities like Alyssa Milano and Robin Williams. His work with Jash is both notable and his most recent work.


 * I'd say that also qualifies him for him having "Had had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions."


 * So, in terms of WP:Entertainer he comfortably clears the bar. That was the only thing you had issue with in my initial rebuttal.


 * I'll say it again, I'm not sure how much more you want. I really don't know how much more notable he could be. It's almost as if you are punishing him BECAUSE he is Patton Oswalt's brother. If that were not the case, I highly doubt you'd be questioning his notability.


 * I'll also say again that I sure hope we get a second opinion here, because if this gets deleted due to your personal opinion and your opinion alone, that's very unfair and undemocratic.  --PaulTheAirplane (talk) 02:23, 27 January 2017 (UTC)


 * 118K in followers only shows he may be popular, being popular does not evoke or prove Wikipedia based notability. This is not a cult following.


 * There appears to be nothing unique about his contributions to the industry, this not a judgmental statement, so take a deep breath. 8-). Please show which of the "references" are significant, in-depth discussions.


 * I see no significant roles in multiple venues.


 * Again, he fails to meet WP:ENT.


 * I have no interest in if he has a brother or not. Please assume good faith


 * AfDs run for 7 days or more and if there is no additional comments the AfD will be closed as undecided and the article will be kept. Be assured this is a community project and the admin closing the take into consideration the number and substance of the comments.  red <b style="color:#000;">dog</b><i style="color:#000;">six</i> (talk) 03:30, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  MBisanz  talk 01:59, 29 January 2017 (UTC) <div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Kurykh (talk) 00:51, 6 February 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.