Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Maud Angelica Behn


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Doczilla @SUPERHEROLOGIST 06:25, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Maud Angelica Behn

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Contrary to what was said upon the recreation of the articles, the Behn girls are expressly not "core members" of the Norwegian royal family. Not even their mother is. See the official website. Consequently, the girls bear no titles and have no public role. They are low profile teenagers. The only reason we have these articles is that their mother is the daughter of a king, but notability is not inherited. According to WP:INVALIDBIO, "that person A has a relationship with well-known person B, such as being a spouse or child, is not a reason for a standalone article on A". For them to be considered notable, they have to have attracted significant coverage in reliable sources, but the truth is that they do not get more than passing references in reliable sources when their parents or another actually prominent relative are discussed. Surtsicna (talk) 16:20, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Royalty and nobility-related deletion discussions. Surtsicna (talk) 16:20, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Norway-related deletion discussions. Surtsicna (talk) 16:20, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions.  CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 17:21, 13 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Keep Thank you for notifying me of the AfD. The acid test here is WP:N, and the test is surely met. Notability is not about importance, but the subject is listed on the web site of the royal family as one of the small number of members of the family, anyone who doubts that has only to follow the link helpfully provided above. Could this information please not be deleted from the article again? It seems pretty unlikely that any member of a reigning royal family is non-notable. But the correct approach to this is whether there is substantial coverage in independent reliable sources, and there is. Moonraker (talk) 01:36, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Note on “the recreation of the articles”, in checking the history, which goes back to 2004, I can find no deletion. I see the nominator has twice blanked the page without discussion, but that is not quite the same thing. Moonraker (talk) 02:12, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
 * A header at Leah Isadora Behn says that article is being considered for deletion, but the link provided leads here instead. If this page is treated as an AfD for that page too, then I say Keep for the same reasons. Please could I be notified if another AfD is in fact begun? Moonraker (talk) 01:48, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
 * This is the deletion nomination page for both articles. I contend that WP:GNG is not met because there is no in-depth coverage of these teenagers in reliable sources. Since you claim otherwise, please point to the significant coverage which I have not been able to find. The subject is listed on the family's website as a minor relation, literally "in addition" to those who are "members of the Norwegian Royal House", i.e. those with royal roles. Unlike their cousins, who are prince and princess, the Behn sisters do not have biographies on the official website. On the official website, just as in every other reliable source, they are only mentioned in passing when their mother is covered. That does not constitute significant coverage. However unlikely it may seem, relatives of monarchs can be non-notable. We have guidelines explaining that, and we have had numerous articles deleted recently, e.g. the grandchildren of the kings of Sweden and Belgium, for the very same reason. Surtsicna (talk) 02:44, 14 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Note: When it comes to “the grandchildren of the kings of Sweden and Belgium”, that is beside the point, as every case needs to be judged on its own merits, viz. compliance (or otherwise) with WP:N. You are surely not suggesting that a rule of thumb is developing that the grandchildren of monarchs are non-notable. The sources are listed under the header “References”, no point in copying them here. As WP:N is not about importance, I do not think it matters to this discussion, but it is not correct that “the subject is listed on the family's website as a minor relation”, that is not said there. For what it’s worth, below is what the royalcourt.no page says, which is pretty clear: it treats Maud and Leah the same way as their mother, Princess Märtha Louise. You would not I think say it implies that she is non-notable? Moonraker (talk) 03:29, 14 February 2022 (UTC)  "The Royal House of Norway belongs to the House of Glücksburg. The members of the Norwegian Royal House are Their Majesties King Harald and Queen Sonja and Their Royal Highnesses Crown Prince Haakon, Crown Princess Mette-Marit and Princess Ingrid Alexandra. The members of the Royal Family are in addition the Crown Prince and Crown Princess’s other children, His Highness Prince Sverre Magnus and Mr Marius Borg Høiby; Her Highness Princess Märtha Louise, Miss Maud Angelica Behn, Miss Leah Isadora Behn, Miss Emma Tallulah Behn and Her Highness Princess Astrid, Mrs Ferner."

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   21:50, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep Maud. Unlike her older half-brother Marius Borg Høiby, Maud Angelica Behn has actually done something that separates her from the half-significant royal/celeb gossip news. She became a public figure when her father died and she spoke at his funeral. This was followed by her writing the book Tråder av tårer, which was printed in 10,000 copies and immediately reached #1 on the Norwegian Booksellers Association bestseller list upon release.  Geschichte (talk) 08:20, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Neutral on Leah. She is an influencer and horserider, but only a teenager, so one might construe the coverage (which is ample) as not being significant. But it's 100% certain that the Norwegian press treats these people like full members of the royal family. The notion of them being "low profile teenagers" could not be further from the truth. Geschichte (talk) 08:22, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Speaking at father's funeral hardly makes one a public figure, but being a writer might be something that makes RS notice her. The question is whether they get in-depth coverage by reliable sources, thus excluding tabloid gossip or brief mentions in articles about their parents. I do not see that. Surtsicna (talk) 10:29, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
 * What would you know about the outcome of someone speaking in public, when you haven't had a single glance at relevant sources? Geschichte (talk) 11:37, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
 * The hostility is uncalled-for. You know less about my Internet search history than you think, otherwise I would be rather concerned. Surtsicna (talk) 12:38, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Delete non notable member of this family.--SlideAndSlip (talk) 15:31, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep. Meet WP:GNG and the grandchildren of ruling monarchs are usually notable. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:42, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep, as there is enough coverage to show notability.Jackattack1597 (talk) 21:57, 28 February 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.