Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Maudine Ormsby (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus.  Sandstein  19:34, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

Maudine Ormsby
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Interesting story; WP:1E at best, not WP:NOTABLE. Boleyn (talk) 20:29, 18 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Animal-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 20:43, 18 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ohio-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 20:43, 18 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Education-related deletion discussions. Lightburst (talk) 00:09, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. Lightburst (talk) 00:09, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

*Delete: I'm not sure it's even notable enough to warrant a merge here. If the only sources are the university website and the university newspaper (effectively a primary source), I just can't believe that it's notable enough to even be mentioned on Wikipedia. We have expectations for article content that does expect reliable sourcing for everything except the trivial. A legend that could "enhance the mystique" of the school should require secondary sourcing, IMHO. Waggie (talk) 07:49, 25 January 2020 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Merge to History of Ohio State University. BD2412  T 21:07, 18 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Merge Local campus lore, hardly notable. Reywas92Talk 21:11, 18 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete WP:NOT Wm335td (talk) 21:31, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Merge not sufficient and notable enough for a stand alone articleGeorgiamarlins (talk) 11:40, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, RL0919 (talk) 00:02, 26 January 2020 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete - non-notable bovine prank. Bearian (talk) 21:58, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein   10:42, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.   </li> <li></li> <li></li> <li></li> <li></li> <li></li> <li></li> <li></li> <li></li> <li></li> <li></li> <li></li> <li></li> </ol>

<ol> <li> The book notes on page 201: "Big Midwestern universities have their roots in agricultural land grants, and take their cows more seriously. A classic cow prank that crops up at Ag schools, from time to time, is a heifer being elected homecoming queen." The book notes on page 202: "A prime representative of the genre is the case of Maudine Ormsby, homecoming queen of 1926 at Ohio State University. Supported by the College of Agriculture, Ormsby, a prize Holstein, initially placed a respectable second. The homecoming committee learned of Maudine's species during a check of the student directory, to contact the homecoming candidates for picture-taking purposes. Maudine was disqualified from the final balloting for the crime of being a cow (how thankful we should all be that such appalling speciesism would never be tolerated on today's enlightened campuses). The Ag students raised a protest, but what saved their cause was all the human candidates were disqualified owing to dishonest campaign tactics. That left Maudine, who was the wrong phylum, but at least had not cheated. The homecoming committee decided to chose a queen at a special session. Amazingly, they threw up their hands and selected Maudine. The ball back in their court, Ag college officials had to nix the participation of Maudine in the parade festivities, since the cow—which had set world records in milk production—was too valuable to parade around. Her place in the homecoming procession was taken by two undergraduates inside a cow outfit. There was an attempt to inject some human cheesecake into the parade by naming a certain Rosalind Morrison as the unofficial queen. But she had her pride, and refused. 'It was an insult to be beat out by a cow that I refused to accept any of the honors at all,' she said, 30 years after the fact." The book further notes: "Maudine was not the last barnyard creature bedecked with human honors at OSU. In 1940, when all the candidates for May Queen were eliminated on technicalities, the OSU May Queen was a mare named Jean Scot."</li> <li> The book notes: "You're lucky you weren't around during the reign of Maudine Ormsby. The 1925 Ohio State University Monthly anointed her “the latest star in the Milky way. . . she has represented Ohio State University. . . where she has received honors galore.” She also packed 'em in with record crowds during the annual Farmer's Week, where five thousand “paid her tribute,” according to the magazine. Is it any wonder that Maudine was elected Homecoming Queen by ardent student fans in the fall of the following year? Never mind that Maudine had four legs instead of two, and at about 1,200 or so pounds (give or take a couple hundred either way), she was a little plus-sized, even for her height. Oh, and did we mention that Maudine Ormsby was a Holstein cow? Yet Maudine was chosen queen by an overwhelming margin, with votes exceeding the actual number of students enrolled at the university, according to some accounts. The first runner-up, Rosalind Morrison (later Mrs. W. F. Strapp) felt she'd been handed a bum steer and “refused to accept any of the honors at all,” as she stated in records maintained by the OSU Archives. “It was quite a blow to all the candidates,” although in later years, it had “become quite a joke.” ... the Stories vary as to what actually transpired, but Maudine was the overwhelming choice of students in the College of Agriculture. Along with being four-year champion, she was the “youngest heifer in the world to ... According to the archives' records, Maudine initially came in second. But the Homecoming Committee got the cow tip after they checked the student directory and couldn't locate her or her photo. However, other irregularities in the election resulted in the divine bovine's catapult to homecoming royalty. When they heard about her win, Maudine's handlers in the College of Agriculture had a, er, cow. They feared the coronation might curdle her milk, or that she might “zig” when she should “zag” and trample a few revelers. So although she was honored at the Homecoming Parade—two boys in a cow costume rode the float and attended other events—she stayed in the barn during the dance, game, and other hoopla. Things quickly turned into cow patties after that. Ohio State lost the game to their archrival Michigan by one point, their only defeat of the year, knocking them out of the Big Ten title. By 1929 Maudine had developed brucellosis, a contagious bacterial infection. So like Mary, Queen of Scots, and Charles I of England before her, she became a victim of regicide. Still, her saga lives on, to the udder amusement of new generations of students at Ohio State."</li> <li> The book notes: "Maudine Ormsby Homecoming Queen ■ Ohio State ■ Nov. 12, 1926 Maudine Ormsby was the ugliest homecoming queen ever elected. She had a long, straight nose with wide nostrils, big ears that she could wiggle, teeth the size of piano keys, broad but bony hips, and widely bowed ribs. And was she fat! She stood only five feet tall and had a girth to match. She weighed half a ton. Maudine, you see, was a cow. The Ohio State student body elected a pure-bred, prize-winning Holstein their 1926 homecoming queen. When it was time for the school to choose a queen, the fraternities and sororities nominated their own candidates. But the independent students felt they had been shunned, so they decided to put up their own candidate. They picked Maudine. She sure wasn't pretty, but she did have a nice disposition and a helluva set of jugs. She immediately gained the support of the College of Agriculture. Although the university enrollment totaled only 9,000 back then, more than 13,000 ballots were cast—the majority for Maudine. (She beat out such write-in contenders as evangelist Aimee McPherson, Queen Mary, Helen of Troy, and Sophie Tucker.) Some of her legitimate two-legged opponents protested the rigged election, but the homecoming committee decided to milk the prank for all it was worth, and allowed Maudine to wear her crown. Maudine's chaperones wouldn't permit her to appear in all the homecoming festivities because, after all, she was only four years old. However, for the Ohio State homecoding parade, she did ride majestically in a horse-drawn float. Unfortunately, Maudine failed to inspire the football team. It lost to Michigan—to the udder disappointment of Ohio State fans."</li> <li> The article notes: "Columbus, O., Nov. 10—Maudine Ormsby, the only cow ever elected queen of a college homecoming festival, was forbidden to ascend the throne today. The spokesman for the queen announced tonight that her majesty would be unable to undergo the rigors of the alumni festivities at Ohio State university Friday night, on the eve of the Ohio State Michigan football classic. “It's no place for a cow,” declared Prof. Carl W. Gay, head of the department of animal husbandry. Prof. Schuyler M. Salisbury of the same department, grand vizier and advisor to the queen, agreed that Maudine's nervous system might be so upset that almost anything might happen. Furthermore, decided the spokesmen, Maudine is professionally engaged in production of milk, high in butter fat, which already has won her four world's records, and queening would seriously interfere with the vitamins. She is barred for professionalism, it Seems. Maudine's sudden abdication, after four days of red hot controversy, came as a climax of a climax of a weird series of campus events reminiscent of the old Siwash tales. A crooked election, outcries of serious minded professors who wished to save the university from disgrace, loud guffaws by those who visioned a sad-eyed cow at an alumni dance jamboree, and much excited comment by virtually everyone in the university district, has produced a sensation. There has been more talk around Ohio State this week regarding whether Maudine was to serve as queen in person than about how hard it is to get a ticket for Saturday's game, and that's plenty. Leroy Morris, editor of the Sun Dial, humorous monthly, student chairman of the homecoming celebration, confronted with the news that Maudinewas ineligible, announced that there would be a cow on hand at the alumni dance neverthless, Maudine or no Maudine. He refuses to say whether he would borrow a cow from a farmer or build one of papier-mache. At any rate, Morris has a perfectly good cashable silver cup to be awarded to the homecoming queen. Perhaps it will be placed against the royal bank account to buy her hay. The ultimatum of the spokesman for the queen came after a hectic day at the university. Prof. Salisbury protested to Prof. Gay, and Prof. Gay appealed to Dean Alfred Vivian of the college of agriculture for a ruling, and the matter even reached the office of President George W. Rightmire, who refused to comment. The Boost Ohio committee devoted much time at its afternoon meeting today to the question of divine right and the royal succession. It all began last week, when entries rolled in for the annual election for queen."</li> <li> The book notes: "For some, the idea of crowing a Homecoming Queen each fall is an antiquated and objectifying notion that falls somewhere in- between presidential politics and beauty pageants. Perhaps that was the mindset of the group of Ohio State agriculture students who, in 1926, nominated one of their own for the Homecoming court. The only thing they neglected to mention was that their nominee, Maudine Ormsby, was the dean's pet cow. Maudine' s bovine background never came up until just before the ceremonies when the Homecoming committee members were trying to round up all the candidates for a photograph. Only then did it become known that no tiara was going to fit this queen. Flustered, the committee tried to disqualify Maudine. But when they later discovered all the other candidates had illegally campaigned for the Homecoming honor, the committee had no choice but to name Maudine the winner. For the parade she was placed atop a flatbed truck along with her escort (decked out in a spotless white dairy uniform), and for one j- day, everyone had to kowtow to Queen Maudine."</li> <li> The article notes: "Ohio Maudine Ormsby, a Holstein heifer, owned by the Ohio State University, has just completed a seven day test record of 431.4 pounds of milk and 23.33 pounds of butter. This heifer made the record at 21 months and seven days of age, which, so far as the Department of Animal Husbandry can learn, is a new record for heifers of this age in Ohio, and second in the United States. The university should feel a sense of pride in this achievement, due to the fact that the mother and grandmother of this heifer, as well as the heifer herself, were all bred by the university. She is an excellent individual, having won second at the Ohio State Fair, and seventh at the National Dairy Show. She is now milking 70 pounds per day with a test of four percent butter fat. During the test the heifer was fed and milked by Carroll E. Eby, Columbus, a junior in the College of Agriculture."</li> <li> The article notes: "A world's milk production record has been broken by a university Holstein cow. Ohio Maudine Ormaby, a Holstein-Friesian heifer, bred and owned by Ohio State university, just finished a 30 day official record of 2223 pounds of milk and 96.5 pounds of butter, which according to available records, is the world's record for a yearling and the state record for 30 days milk production for two year olds. Ohio Maudine Ormsby freshened at 21 1/2 months and produced more than 5000 pounds of milk before she was two years old. This is more milk than the average Ohio milk cow produces in an entire year, said Prof. C. T. Conklin, in charge of the dairy at the university farm. Five generations of university breeding on the maternal side of her pedigree."</li> <li> The article notes: "Ohio Maudine Ormsby is a Holstein, and the fifth generation in the university's best Holstein stock. Ten years ago Farmers' week visitors saw Maudine Ormsby's granddam, Ohio Colontha Rakker (?), a state champion who produced, in her lifetime, 6000 pounds of butter and about three thousand dollars worth of calves."</li> <li> The article notes: "Former Governor Frank O. Lowden, of Illinois, famous farmer-legislator, pictured above with 'Ohio Maudine Ormsby,' prize cow of Ohio State University, in an address there told the students of 'The Farmer and His Organizations,' 'Ohio Maudine' is of Holstein stock and has produced the world's record of 22,000 pounds of milk, plus 920 pounds of butter." The article contains a photo of Maudine Ormsby with the former governor that will become a public domain photo on 1 January 2021 according to my reading of public domain in the United States. There is another higher quality 1925 photo of Maudine Ormsby with the governor on Flickr here that will also become a public domain photo on 1 January 2021.</li> <li> The article notes: "Nominated on a ticket with ten popular Ohio State University girls, Ohio Maudine Ormsby, thoroughbred Holstein cow, was elected 'home-coming queen' for the Michigan game November 13. Maudine's vote far exceeded the total cast for the other candidates."</li> <li> The article notes: "The cow may be queen of the barnyard, but the dignity of Ohio State University can't countenance the throne being moved to the ballroom. So the placid-faced Ohio Maudine Ormsby, champion milk giver, will not amble into the crystal slipper ballroom Friday night to be crowned queen of the University Homecoming Festival. Maudine recently defeated ten popular coeds in balloting to choose a queen for the Homecoming Festival. Students had prepared for the coronation—with the exception of asking the cow and the Animal Husbandry Department. Department officials answered 'No' today with some asperity."</li> <li> The article notes: "Students of Ohio State University at Columbus might with all propriety have chosen Miss Katherine Porter, left, as their beauty queen. Few, if any, would have criticized had they picked Miss Margery Rutledge, right. Equally unanimous might have been a vote in favor of Miss Willeen Ludwig, below. But did any of these three exemplars of pulchritude win? No—not a bit of it. The winner, reader, was lovely Maudine Ormsby, whose map appears in the center. Maudine is the prize cow of the university's agriculture department." The article contains photos of Maudine Ormsby and other contenders that will become public domain photos on 1 January 2022 according to my reading of public domain in the United States.</li> <li> The article notes: "The farm candidate, according to the consensus rode into office upon the unpopularity of the Law school. In the past the lawyers have always elected their candidate, because they voted as a unit. Miss Ormsby was nominated easily, but her name was left off the ballot because she wasn't listed in the student directory. Her followers wrote in her name, however. The lawyers in their zeal to win, had 1,000 fake ballots printed, rivals charg. Then the journalism students rushed to their print shop and turned out another 2,000 fake tickets, so reports to. Another faction managed, rumor says, to steal 1,500 regulation ballots and fill them out for their girl. All the illegal ballots were thrown out. Maudine drew 500 votes." The article contains photos of Maudine Ormsby and other contenders that will become public domain photos on 1 January 2022 according to my reading of public domain in the United States.</li> <li> The article notes: "Last year the election returns were thrown out because of crooked politics, and a cow, Maudine Ormsby, of the college of agriculture, was accorded the honor and crowned in the stadium. This year a committee of judges, instead of the entire campus, will select the beauty queen and she will be a human, co-ed student, they say."</li> <li> The article notes: "Maudine Ormsby, the only cow to gain immortal fame at Ohio State university, will have her picture painted, if the reports issued at the art department of the university are true. Miss Ormsby will undergo the brush at the hands of Miss Yeteve Smith, of Columbus. The finished work will be a feature attraction of the clubroom at the College of Agriculture headquarters, Townshend hall."</li> </ol>

There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Maudine Ormsby to pass Notability, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Cunard (talk) 12:11, 2 February 2020 (UTC)</li></ul>
 * Maudine Ormsby was selected as the homecoming queen of 1926 at Ohio State University. This received significant coverage in books published in 1986 by Pocket Books, in 1992 by St. Martin's Press, and in 2011 by Morris Communications. That the homecoming queen story has been written about in books published 60–85 years after the event occurred strongly establishes that it has "attracted attention over a sufficiently significant period of time". The 1992 book also notes that Maudine "had set world records in milk production". A 1925 article in Chillicothe Gazette published a photo of Maudine Ormsby with former Ohio Governor Frank Orren Lowden and says "Maudine is of Holstein stock and has produced the world's record of 22,000 pounds of milk, plus 920 pounds of butter". A 1926 article published by D. Appleton & Company notes, "Maudine is professionally engaged in production of milk, high in butter fat, which already has won her four world's records". I oppose a merge to History of Ohio State University since covering Maudine Ormsby's story in that article would be undue weight and since there are enough sources and material about the homecoming queen story and her world records to establish notability per Notability and justify a standalone article. Cunard (talk) 12:11, 2 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep: I'm quite shocked, but 's research was thorough and I do now believe this topic meets WP:GNG. My above delete vote has been struck. It looks like there's WP:SIGCOV here in numerous reliable sources (not just small town and/or college papers, either) that report on a variety of apparently newsworthy events surrounding this one cow. Waggie (talk) 05:19, 9 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you for reviewing the sources and reconsidering your position, ! Cunard (talk) 11:21, 9 February 2020 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.