Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Meathead


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result was Keep. When you take the massive amount of trolling out of this AfD, the argument for deletion does not compare at all to the argument for keep. I suppose, this could be considered boderline no consensus or keep among established editors. However, there is not a convincing argument for deletion made. Yank sox  04:33, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Meathead
Non-notable internet person. Seems to be known in some NIN online circles, but no incoming google links to the website described as his "column." Has links to other languages as The NIN Hotline which does seem to be a notable enough site. Vote: Redirect to Michael Stivic &mdash; RevRagnarok  Talk Contrib 23:39, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment - This article has changed considerably since original - original. Since then it was cleaned, and then more cruft started to fill back in. &mdash;  RevRagnarok  Talk Contrib 03:18, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment - No, I have nothing against him and truly don't know who he is. I don't remember how I stumbled on the page, probably doing my random wikignoming - finding a page with no category, etc, and looking it over. As noted above, the original page I saw was absolute junk with obvious non-encyclopedic entries (strike 1). You'll note the page still has no category today except via the AfD (strike 2). If you click "What links here" the only references were an incorrect one I just fixed and the NIN one that had been added the day before (maybe that was how I hit the article). The IP that added the link to the main NIN page was an obvious vandal as noted here and here (strike 3). Also, as noted above, no incoming Google links to his column (strike 4). And lastly, it is very strange that a single person's name would be referred to as something else in the other languages ("The NIN Hotline") (strike 5). So that's why I brought it to AfD. And when a AfD gets innundated with random IP votes with no signatures, I do not envy the admin who has to try to track it all down. Especially because I don't think from what I've read that Meathead == The NIN Hotline. So votes that say "NIN Hotline" should stay have nothing to do with this individual. &mdash; RevRagnarok  Talk Contrib 12:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Since when is vandalisation criteria for deletion? Or lack of category? Or lack of internal links? Or an honest mistake in the language links? No, meathead is not the NIN Hotline: he is affiliated with that site, and writes a featured column which is hosted there. Please tell me why this invalidates his inclusion on this website. BotleySmith 20:54, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment I didn't say they were reasons to delete - I said they were, in my opinion, criteria for this AfD and explaining to the people who accuse me of disliking somebody I have never heard of why I called for this vote. I also don't appreciate your link here. &mdash; RevRagnarok  Talk Contrib 21:25, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Why, did I say something wrong? BotleySmith 22:39, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's far fetched to imply that, "Yeah, so this guy was the first one to vote "delete" on the public forum, and called Meathead a "non-notable internet person." Just so you know." wasn't something written in good faith. Apparently only one member took your bait. &mdash; RevRagnarok  Talk Contrib 02:07, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Linking to your user page is an act of agression? Wow, there's a lot of rules here on wikipedia I wasn't aware of. I'm not going to defend swindley's comment because I didn't write it. By the way, you have yet to convince me that the article is non-notable. In fact, the edits of the last few days have pretty powerfully demonstrated that there is knowledge out there on Meathead that most people who had heard of him were unaware of — more needed to be added, not removed, to make the page encyclopedic. The article as it stands is NPOV and verifiable. Disambiguate the name if you must, but do not delete the page. The Perspective is known independently of the NIN Hotline, and creating a new article on it that would, at this juncture, solely host information on Meathead smacks of bureaucracy. Clearly, someone was motivated to create and maintain a Meathead page, but not a NIN Hotline page. There must be a good reason for that. BotleySmith 20:57, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * DELETE The Meathead Perspective is a TERRIBLE source of comic relief for NIN fans. Nine Inch Nails themselves have even acknowledged Meathead. He is not a legend of sorts. It would be no mistake to delete his Wiki Page.--SillyPutty 16:45, 2 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: SillyPutty (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.


 * Keep The official Nine Inch Nails website has a link to Meathead's site. He's an internet celebrity and the article has more information now. Ixum 05:11, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Redirect per above. NawlinWiki 23:45, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Note: his site was down for a while while he was in "retirement", hence why links will have disappeared It's somewhere in this thread: http://www.echoingthesound.org/phpbbx/viewtopic.php?t=5387 The perspective only recently came back up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.207.124.226 (talk • contribs)
 * Note - the forum thread linked above is from 2004-2005. Not exactly a 'recent' development. &mdash; RevRagnarok  Talk Contrib 23:59, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, but the site was actually down for that long: it only went back up on 27 May 2006. BotleySmith 00:07, 31 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom, then redirect as above. Andrew Lenahan -  St ar bli nd  23:51, 30 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep. I have it on authority from the owner/operator of The NIN Hotline, Leviathant, that Meathead's column receives almost as much traffic as any other portion of his site, including the very frequently-visited news page.

"It's worth noting that The Meathead Perspective gets almost as much traffic as the news portion of the page. It's not really titled 'The NIN Hotline: Home of Meathead' but it practically should be. [...] On some months, if we stuck solely to our strengths, we'd actually ditch the news and run all-meathead, all-the-time ;)" ...that's from his post on the board where meathead is most often seen. I mean, come on: the link to The Meathead Perspective on NIN's official site certainly should inspire one to keep this article; what are casual NIN fans to think if they stumble upon such a page without knowing its origins? BotleySmith 00:05, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Note: I was talking about when it went down, not when it came back up again. This guy is funny. Check out the EDIETS video, and see how his work has been rated: (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)


 * Keep. As a foremost Nine Inch Nails music collector at http://www.swindley.ca, I vouche to keep the article on Meathead as part of Wikipedia. Meathead is an indispensible part of the Nine Inch Nails online community, providing humour, insite and above all else, entertainment to millions of NIN fans annually.  Furthermore (and most important to my position) his internet humour column is recognized by Nine Inch Nails and Trent Reznor directly, through advertisement and linkage from the band's official website, at http://www.nin.com/resources/. 24.150.163.32 21:35, 31 July 2006 (UTC) Mike Swindley


 * PLEASE DELETE!!. 65.66.39.1 16:09, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Please Keep As a longtime Nine Inch Nails fan and user of both TheNINHotline.net and Echoingthesound.org I have found Meathead to be extremely popular and well-known among the NIN fanbase. His humor column is well-established in the NIN universe, exemplified by its inclusion in the links portion of Nine Inch Nail's official webpage.Brightshadow 20:52, 1 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Brightshadow (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.


 * Keep (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)


 * Keep Meathead is a a very significant figure when it comes to Nine inch nails news. All nin fans know about him. wikipedia is an information site, and the nin hotline supplies constant news and info when it comes to info that is nin related. Meathead deserves to be known, for his marks made for NIN fans. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)


 * Keep Anybody who knows anything about NIN and the Internet knows about Meathead.  I've personally witnessed him get recognized at NIN shows on many occasions. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)


 * Keep. King Bee 23:52, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Please Keep.--69.214.60.57 00:06, 2 August 2006 (UTC)Sandy — Possible single purpose account: 69.214.60.57 (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.


 * PLEASE KEEP...PLEASE DON'T DELETE THIS PAGE! Meathead is pretty famous among NIN fans. :-) --Demon nin 00:12, 2 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account''': Demon nin (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.


 * PLEASE DELETE THIS PAGE! Its just another example of how meathead just wants to milk his 10 seconds of fame by having his 'very own' wikipedia. -fetus (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)


 * DELETE hell why not. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)


 * KEEP he disappeared on me, maybe because he became internet famous... or maybe because he was Cixe`.. but he sure as hell is famous enough to have a Wikipedia entry. Linked on the official page?  Isnt that enough? (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)


 * DELETE wiki entry is of no educational value but is rather an equivalent to someone on urbandictionary.com defining themselves for some notoriety. the entry consists of opinions, e.g. him being funny, that many disagree with. there's no real point to this entry so delete it. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)


 * KEEP Paris Hilton has her own page, and Meathead's slept with way more dudes. -Themethatyouknow (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)


 * DELETE If anything, meathead should have a footnote on the nin entry instead of his own page. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)


 * KEEP Theninhotline not a notable enough site? Are you kidding me? Someone doesn't do their homework. Meathead is even listed on the nin.com links page. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)


 * KEEP He has alot of fans and he has been making us laugh since 1999. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)


 * KEEP Of course Meathead should be kept! I've been reading his column for years. He's an a**hole and all, but many many people still like his humour column, and he is obviously very well known. -Magtig 208.57.69.28 23:11, 2 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: 208.57.69.28 (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.


 * Keep it! His humour is fantastic and has a huge following on the internet. And The NIN Hotline is probably one of the best fan-run websites available for music fans. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)


 * Keep Love him or hate him, Meathead is well known by most NIN fans. That degree of notoriety deserves a Wiki entry. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)


 * Keep....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maddox_%28writer%29 I believe it is fair for him to have a definition if a similiar one already exsists. I have been an avid fan of his page since around 2000.  Talented dude, deserves it. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)


 * Keep Meathead is a useful addition to the Wikipedia and helps describe an internet celebrity. This is exactly the sort of thing Wikipedia was created for, allowing informative and accurate articles about items other encyclopedias would normally overlook. --NeoVampTrunks 05:51, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep.It should be enough that The Meathead Perspective is a link on the official nin.com page. Also, given the popularity of "Closer to Mario," people should be able to turn to a source like Wikipedia to find out who created it.  I actually did not know it was Meathead until reading this page, yet I'd heard the song long ago.  This page is necessary and actually, long overdue.Musicmaniac32 06:53, 2 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Musicmaniac32 (talk • contribs)  has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
 * Comment.To say that Meathead is only known by "a very small online community" is clearly speculation that can just as clearly be proven false. Wikipedia would not allow, nor appreciate if everyone who knows of and enjoys Meathead came to this site and started posting 'Keeps' all over the place (as evidenced by the alert at the top of the page).  Just because some people are ignorant of his existance does not mean that others are, and indeed, Meathead is linked with Nine Inch Nails in a significant enough manner so as to warrant a Wiki article (See my aforementioned reference to "Closer to Mario"). Musicmaniac32 19:58, 2 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Musicmaniac32 (talk • contribs)  has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.


 * Keep. Meathead is an important aspect of Nine Inch Nails fandom and is well-deserving of a Wikipedia page. HorseloverFat 08:19, 2 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: HorseloverFat (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
 * What are the reasons why the page would need to be deleted? I think the Google search results "meathead" turns up (number one hit) proove that the phrase "meathead" is synonymous on the Internet with this Meathead, and so a Meathead Wikipedia article has a purpose. HorseloverFat 15:11, 2 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: HorseloverFat (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.


 * keep.People need to know who this jerk is so they know how to stop him. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)


 * Delete.Meathead is a suspender chaplain, Cashpiles is worlds better H6a6t6e 08:32, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep. Meathead is well deserving of a Wikipedia entry! To delete him would invalidate the entire Wikipedia project. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)


 * Keep. Seems like you only want to delete the entry because you don't like him. Surely this many people saying to keep it is enough to merit keeping it, regardless of whether you like him or not? (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)


 * KEEP When you google "meathead" he is the first thing to pop up (seen here). That should be enough to tell you that it should stay. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)


 * Keep. Since we NIN-fans have a drought coming up, what with mr. Reznor bringing out a new record 'sometime soon', the only thing to keep us occupied will be Meathead guessing what 'soon' means - which means he'll be the only good thing around for a while. If, of course, he makes more flash films. Which he should. Seriously though: Meathead is a healthy counterbalance for everyone that tends to take Nine Inch Nails, Reznor, music as a whole too seriously. And beneath the MS Paint crap and the ugly lay-outs, there's a very good writer who knows a lot more about music than the release dates of each halo. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)


 * As both a NIN fan, and as an occasional contributing writer/editor for Wikipedia, I think that an entry on Meathead, if kept simple, neutral, and to the point, may have possible future archival use for a post-NIN time. Even the band is aware of Meathead's presence, and he is not just a creator of parody, but a presence in the NIN online fan community that delivers humor to fans of a music genre often thought to be morbid, serious, and depressing. --Insomniak 12:16, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * KEEP THIS. "10 seconds of fame" my ass. Meathead has had a heavily visited website since 1999. Raid0422 12:52, 2 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Raid0422 (talk • contribs)  has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.


 * ‘‘‘‘KEEP’’’’’’ The fact that Meathead himself didnt create this page seems to show that people are interested in him enough to look at this page. Sam89--139.168.115.74 12:57, 2 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: 139.168.115.74 (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.


 * DELETE Non-notable person coat-tailing on Reznor's fame. 141.214.17.5 14:16, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * DELETE Illustrates everything wrong with Wikipedia. Jkryznowski 14:26, 2 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Jkryznowski (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.


 * Keep. Entry is as relevant to Nine Inch Nails' history as the Mud Shark incident is to Led Zeppelin history. Naysayers are obviously not interested in Wikipedia including pertinent information about rock music and its history.  Like it or not, Meathead *is* a part of NIN's online history.Beavette 14:49, 2 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Beavette (talk • contribs)  has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.


 * KEEP I just love meathead. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)


 * AH, GEEZ. Delete present content and replace with information about the word's use in All in the Family. --Slgr @ ndson (page - messages - contribs) 15:32, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * KEEP I think this article should be kept because 1) when you google "meathead", the link to The Meathead Perspective returns first, 2) The NIN Hotline is the most notable news source for thousands of Nine Inch Nails fans and all of whom visit their page are well aware of meathead own contributions via the humor columns in The Meathead Perspective, 3) The official Nine Inch Nails website has linked The Meathead Perspective in the resources section since the release of the 1999 album The Fragile, 4) Trent Reznor of Nine Inch Nails has on various occassions interacted with meathead as seen when answering fan questions, photos/videos of meathead at certain shows while on tour since '99, and the whole birthday party after a show event. I would argue an article of meathead is legitimate for all these reasons. Also, though The NIN Hotline did mention this article is in question for deletion, you will see in a short amount of time how many NIN/NIN Hotline/meathead fans do know about meathead and will argue otherwise to keep this article. - Nlibera 16:12, 2 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Nlibera (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.


 * KEEP It's important to note that in the context of Nine Inch Nails and Trent Reznor, Meathead is part of the band's total experience.  He has been part of the history of this band since 1999 and is certainly not somone "riding on Trent Reznor's coattails".  Meathead's talent and humor have kept NIN fans entertained for years.  As a satirist and humorist he is funnier than most of what passes for comedy today.  Last year, a rumored end to the Meathead Perspective sent fans into fits of grief and hair ripping at the thought of not having his satirical point-of-view around.  If someone not overly familiar with the band, or it's culture were to hear "Meathead" it would be nice to think that they could check it out on the Wiki. Solitude3 2 August, 2006 — Possible single purpose account: Solitude3 (talk • contribs)  has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.


 * Strong Keep He's a well known satirst of a well known band. That's worth a 'wittle Wikipedia article, surely? Less notable people have articles. Spaltavian 17:27, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * DELETE unlike the mud shark incident with led zeppelin, meathead is irrelevant and unrelated to nine inch nails as a band and trent reznor's music. being a person popular in an online community of fans is not so important as to have its own wikipedia entry, much less the main "meathead" entry when there are more famous "meathead" characters in other media. it won't be many years before the meathead perspective is a distant or forgotten memory, and decades down the line, as people remember bands like the beatles today, no one is going to associate with or even remember an online humor columnist named meathead when discussing nine inch nails. delete this unnecessary wiki entry.65.113.54.254 17:46, 2 August 2006 (UTC)travis
 * Comment I strongly disagree. Meathead will be part of NIN's story forever.  NIN is very much involved in the internet.  The months leading up to the release of 'The Fragile' is a prime example of this.  Do a little research and you'll find that certain marketing tactics were directly focued on the NIN internet fanbase, including Meathead.  Also, Meathead kept us laughing during the (long drawn out) years until '[WITH_TEETH]' was released.  Meathead was around for all of it and it is relevant.  I've only recently heard of the 'mud shark incident'.  Does that mean it's not relevant?  Absolutely not, I'm just not a fan of Led Zeppelin.  (Also, do I have to point out AGAIN that his site is linked from nin.com?) (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)


 * Keep.As pointed out previously, the official Nine Inch Nails website has linked Meathead. He is a notable figure and has been entertaining NIN fans for years now. His wiki entry should be kept.Imaginaryally 18:34, 2 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Imaginaryally (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.


 * Keep. If ever you happen to run into a true fan of the Nine Inch Nails band, the word "meathead" is instantly associated with online news about them. Obviously the people who read his articles care enough to fight for this page, which means going out of your way to do this.  In no way do I deem meathead unworthy of a wikipedia page, if out of any Nine Inch Nails columist to have one, it should be him.  Simply put, if you don't agree with this page for one reason or another, just don't visit it.  But for the fans, this page is a long awaited - and a long due - reward for this incredible satire writer.  If you haven't noticed, meathead has had more than his 15 minutes of fame among the internet, this page should just go to show that it goes beyond simple spotlight time   24.141.223.113 18:53, 2 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: 24.141.223.113 (talk • contribs)  has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.


 * Delete First off, I enjoy Meathead's work. However, my opinion is that this article should be deleted.  I am new to the whole "nn" discussion, and as such, I did a lot of reading of opinions and guidelines regarding notability.  I found compelling arguments on both sides, however.  Ultimately, I made my decision based on the Vanity guidelines and Notability People guidelines.  In particular, I felt that this was a vanity article, not because it was necessarily written by Meathead, but because "it can also be vanity if written by a fan, or close relationship."  I feel that because of the limited exposure and notoriety of the subject to a very small online community, that all the information presented in the article cannot be "covered from a neutral point of view based on verifiable information from reliable sources."   Tabanger   19:07, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep. Meathead is a well known member of the NIN community, both on Echoingthesound and theNINhotline. This article is relevent to Nine Inch Nails. Please keep. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)


 * Keep. Meathead is an endless source of amusement and I know many of my fellow NIN fans would hate to see this deleted. Thanks! (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)


 * Keep. The fact that Meathead accepted an award on NIN's behalf says he holds a level of esteem with the community and the band itself. Because of this, you cannot just easily dismiss the article as a piece of vanity or self-promotion. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)


 * Comment It really needs to reiterated that Meathead accepted an award on NIN's behalf, NIN's site links to Meathead, and NIN threw a suprise birthday partu for him. This makes 65.113.54.254's argument:

"unlike the mud shark incident with led zeppelin, meathead is irrelevant and unrelated to nine inch nails as a band and trent reznor's music... no one is going to associate with or even remember an online humor columnist named meathead when discussing nine inch nails"

absurd on its face. Spaltavian 02:29, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Another Cluttering Comment your face is absurd. by your logic, any groupie trent fucks should have her own wikipedia entry because she's interacted with the band and is probably online somewhere. way to edit out the key element of what i said with ellipses btw, that in the future--not NOW--no one is going to remember meathead when discussing NIN. even now, not every NIN fan obsessively follows so-called "news" about trent, much less an online humor column by a fan, when there are, i dunno, wars and other seemingly important things going on in the world to follow instead. not a single person i know who likes NIN has ever, ever mentioned meathead to me in real life. face it, this wikipedia entry serves no purpose except for vanity, if not for meathead personally then for the saps who think he's funny. let the more famous "meathead" character have the URL.--72.245.31.166 03:49, 3 August 2006 (UTC)travis — Possible single purpose account: 72.245.31.166 (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.


 * Keep. If Wiki can host such pointless entries like the Numa Numa dance or other internet memes/fads - then why can't they host an important and much respected internet humour writer? And yeah, I agree with the dude earlier on - if Paris what's-the-point-in-my-exsistence Hilton can have an entry, why can't Meathead?80.195.205.35 06:18, 3 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: 80.195.205.35 (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.


 * Keep. i'll shoot a dog if you don't keep meathead! (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)


 * Comment. I think the argument that because there are wars going on it automatically invalidates anything less than equal in importance to them as non-notable is not logical at all. Personally, I never have heard of the reference of meathead in All in the Family. Despite the fact I may be a Nine Inch Nails collector and thus probably am more intune with NIN related news (The NIN Hotline being the most consistent, reliable, and frequent source), meathead has been a thoroughly entertaining section at that site. The article itself does need some revision to take away any arguments that it's entirely vanity related, but personally I think there is a fair amount of information there and could be some more that could further legitimize an article on Wikipedia. I think that just because you aren't familiar with meathead in the context of Nine Inch Nails doesn't mean there isn't a sleu of fans and devoted readers of The NIN Hotline who are always anxiously awaiting to see on their RSS feed an absurd headline that must be something from meathead. I would suggest revising meathead's article and if you or any other Wiki editors are adamant about the All in the Family reference, have a search for "meathead" go there first with an option to view a meathead (disambiguation) link. On a side note, I'm actually suprised there isn't an article on The NIN Hotline. Just my thoughts, though. - Nlibera 13:12, 3 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Nlibera (talk • contribs)  has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.


 * Delete "Mikewhy" is known to many Tori Amos fans and Tori herself. You could even say that he is a "celebrity" in some Tori circles.  He is a fan who runs the popular A Dent in the Tori Amos Net Universe website.  But he does not have his own Wikipedia page.  Instead he is included in the page about his website. If you give Meathead his own page, you would have to allow separate pages for other fans that write about bands, as well as other NIN fans from the Hotline.  Many of the NIN reporters like Leviathant are "celebrities" in some NIN circles.  I don't believe Meathead should have his own page.  There should be a page for the NINhotline and Meathead should be included on that.--72.81.128.247 14:24, 3 August 2006 (UTC) Dolores — Possible single purpose account: 72.81.128.247 (talk • contribs)  has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.


 * Keep Meathead has been around for a long time and I believe he has enough notoriety and popularity amongst a very large community to make this article notable. DMighton 16:24, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment Also, if this example of vanity and exaggeration can be an article: Robert Steadman -- an article about Meathead, which does not seem to be vain or untruthful, should not be a problem in the slightest. DMighton 18:55, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Comment back. "I think the argument that because there are wars going on it automatically invalidates anything less than equal in importance to them as non-notable is not logical at all. " that's not what i said, dick. as for 'all in the family,' whether you've seen the show or not, millions more have seen it since it debuted decades ago than visited or are aware of some online humor columnist of a band. it's a main character on one of the most famous sitcoms of all time vs. some obscure internet personality. your personal amusement at meathead's obvious/lazily random hybrid of humor isn't exactly equivalent to, much less more important than, a foil on a show watched and loved by millions, so why not give that expontentially better known character the main wiki entry? and i say, why keep a vanity article for this guy at all?65.113.54.254 17:28, 3 August 2006 (UTC)travis
 * Re: Comment back. Do you really need to resort to name calling? I think my comment makes sense. Regardless if I as an individual do not know about the meathead reference in All in the Family, I agree it should be the first thing to come up in a Wikipedia search. If the current Meathead article is cleaned of the vanity pieces (mostly the "Trivia" section), and if there are any parts that sound non-neutral to have it revised as needed, I think that would be worthy of keeping. That way it's accessible to any Nine Inch Nails fan curious about The NIN Hotline's most well-known author/journalist. Even if you don't know about him, don't like him, or don't care to know more, I think it's viable information that should be available to the inquiring public, no matter how small that inquiry may be. And that is just my opinion, take it as you will. - Nlibera 18:56, 3 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Nlibera (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
 * Comment. "I think it's viable information that should be available to the inquiring public" But couldn't said information be added to a (edit: Wikipedia) NIN hotline page?  That makes more sense than having a separate page for every NIN Hotline reporter that is popular in the NIN online fan circles.  Once you take out the vanity information, there is very little "viable" information left about Meathead.  What information exactly entails Meathead having his own separate page?  Because the way I see it, Meathead having his own page is vanity.72.81.128.247 19:49, 3 August 2006 (UTC) Dolores — Possible single purpose account: 72.81.128.247 (talk • contribs)  has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
 * Re: Comment. I agree there are parts that qualify as obvious vanity. They should be removed. Perhaps there isn't a lot left, but there are plenty of articles on Wikipedia that are stubs as well, and in many cases I'm assume there isn't much else to add. As well, the many staff members of The NIN Hotline probably do have the ability to create detailed biographical sections and even one for Meathead (or maybe just Leviathan, owner and head maintainer of The NIN Hotline as far as I know), but then I have no control and cannot contribute to it. I think they are trying to keep it as professional as they can with the staff members "wank page" being small as that's not what the site itself is about as it's for new on Nine Inch Nails. So my understanding is Wikipedia is an open-ended encyclopedia for anyone to add information on anything, in this case Meathead. Instead of trying to find information on Meathead on his website or The NIN Hotline, I could come to Wikipedia to find all the information many have collaboratively added to get as much info on him at once, versus the possibility of googling it or searching through the vast forums of echoingthesound.org (and personally, I'm not a fan of forums). If this article is deleted, then that's what I'd have to do. If it isn't, maybe there isn't a lot now, but who knows in the future. At least I am not restrained by The NIN Hotline's decisions on what and what not to author on their website about Meathead. I hope that was clear, let me know if there is more I can clarify. - Nlibera 01:31, 4 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Nlibera (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
 * Clarification: I thought my meaning was clear, but I guess not. I meant that there should be a paragraph or so about Meathead on a NIN Hotline Wikipedia page, instead of one Wikipedia for Meathead, one of the Hotline itself, one for Drunkpoet, one for Leviathant, etc.  LOL, I wasn’t talking about the actual Hotline page itself (which btw does have staff bios up).  72.81.128.247 02:52, 4 August 2006 (UTC) )Dolores — Possible single purpose account: 72.81.128.247 (talk • contribs)  has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.


 * Comment Since Nlibera has not commented (yet); this is the way I see it: Informative:1) Meathead is the person who writes the Perspective. 2) Description of the perspective. (This can be a short paragraph on a NIN hotline page) Possibly informative: The Nine Inch Goombas remix.  Where and how much has it been played?  Did some random QOTD crewmember just play the song once during a break or was it specifically chosen by someone higher up? (If the remix is well known, a sentence or two can be added) Possibly Vanity: Proving that NIN likes him.  A brief note can be added that Trent is a fan, but do we really need to know that he accepted an award in place of Trent or some NIN crewmembers threw him a party?  The whole thing strikes me as vanity; getting people to like Meathead just because Trent likes him.  Vanity: 1) "Pimping” his “artwork”.  Selling a few prints online does not warrant your own Wikipedia page.  If it did, hundreds of thousands of “artists” would have their own pages.  Until I see published articles about his work, his art in galleries, etc…this is pure vanity. 2) Other random "facts" on his page. Not important. (Should be deleted).  In short, the "viable information" on Meatheard warrants a paragraph or two on a NIN Hotline (edit: Wikipedia) page, not his own. 72.81.128.247 21:00, 3 August 2006 (UTC)Dolores — Possible single purpose account: 72.81.128.247 (talk • contribs)  has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.


 * Re: Comment. I'd also like to know more information on the Nine Inch Goombas remix (as well, Meathead also remixed Marilyn Manson's "Don't Like The Drugs But The Drugs Like Me" that mashed up the Andy Griffin theme song. Probably an early mash up too before the whole 'mash up' genre came about. Likewise the information on two CDs released by Meathead, are, as far as I can tell, not the same person(s). I do like Meathead's artwork, but the article does seem to not be neutral about it and definitely has sway to sell them. Though you can't say The NIN Hotline should have the short paragraph unless you can convince them why it's necessary and have it posted, in the meantime I would say a Wikipedia article should be kept available. Just how I see it. - Nlibera 01:31, 4 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Nlibera (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
 * Clarification: I thought my meaning was clear, but I guess not. I meant that there should be a paragraph or so about Meathead on a NIN Hotline Wikipedia page, instead of one Wikipedia for Meathead, one of the Hotline itself, one for Drunkpoet, one for Leviathant, etc.  LOL, I wasn’t talking about the actual Hotline page itself (which btw does have staff bios).  72.81.128.247 02:52, 4 August 2006 (UTC) Dolores — Possible single purpose account: 72.81.128.247 (talk • contribs)  has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
 * Re: Clarification. I know it does have it's own staff bio page, though short, and I know in the past Meathead had been in and out of it for various reasons or jokes. A NINWiki would be great, too as I wishfully though below as well. Though I don't have the time to make one. Thanks for your thoughts! - Nlibera 14:08, 4 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Nlibera (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.


 * Delete per norm. Manufracture 21:32, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

As much as I like his work, his wiki page just seems a bit of a waste. There really isn't much on there that couldn't be summarized in a blurb on the nin wiki page. I don't deny his relevance to nin, but I just don't feel that he needs his own page. 199.126.41.181 23:31, 3 August 2006 (UTC)j_kad — Possible single purpose account: 199.126.41.181 (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
 * Wishful Thinking. Maybe I'm watching this discussion to much, but I'd really like to see a NINWiki. It seems to be a very easy way to get information, and there are plenty of articles out there The NIN Hotline has been tirelessly collecting over the years. Maybe something Levathian or others to consider creating. That way you could search via magazines, dates, or topics discussed per interview, have more indepth information on nin.com's versions, updates, and other celebutantes (ie, Meathead) associated to Nine Inch Nails in one way or another. Though this is just idle wishful thinking and I myself don't have the time or talents to do such a thing. Then Wikipedia could argue further to remove this Meathead entry. Although I always thought Wikipedia's goal was to strive for collecting as much information on everything eventually. As endless as that may seem. I'll shut up eventually. - Nlibera 01:48, 4 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Nlibera (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
 * Delete - Humourist contributing to a fan site doesn't constitute notability and no other substantive claims. BlueValour 04:23, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete Adding it as a link and describing on the Nine Inch Nails Wikipedia page is more than enough. The Meathead Perspective does not deserve its own page. No more than the site "Hanging these chains" does or any fan site for any popular music group. --4.88.54.51 15:45, 4 August 2006 (UTC) Mahatma — Possible single purpose account: 4.88.54.51 (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
 * Strong Keep Meathead is a central part of the "NINternet", or the series of fan sites on the web. Forget his relevance to NIN - he's got enough fans to stand alone as someone who is entitled to a Wiki article. Take Weebl for example. --TonySt 22:10, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * KEEP Meathead is awesome! We should keep it because it is marking that meathead has made a difference in nin fans becauase of the meathead perspective. He even tells news, just not in a too serious way. He makes fun of the of stupid stalkerish fan sites that just need to know everything about the band or what ever that fan site is about. It just shows that nin fans dont need to know absolutely every detail about their "idol" and its finny at the same time.User:Lee179 — Possible single purpose account: Lee179 (talk • contribs)  has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
 * Strong Merge - Clearly, the info in this article should be merged with the main NIN article. Only a fraction of NIN fans have ever heard of Meathead (the Internet is not the world).  He's worth a footnote and no more. 68.40.41.106
 * Keep Meathead is an interesting and notable character, both funny and insightful and has provided many significant contributions to our humble ninternet as well as the web in general (youtube videos, humor columns, meatart). There are many people throughout the web community who often inquire as to who meathead is, and wikipedia provides a useful resource to those seeking that information, enough so that I fully believe he has enough merit for a wiki page.Dougied 02:45, 5 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Dougied (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
 * Delete Content will become stagnant and useless. I also think it is shameless that The NIN Hotline is running a message lobbying for NIN fans to keep a MeatheadWiki. (UNSIGNED/UNKNOWN)
 * Delete after the recent hacking of an idiots email and myspace, I say forget him for being a childish asshole... 71.223.16.208 10:13, 5 August 2006 (UTC)hmmmm — Possible single purpose account: 71.223.16.208 (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.
 * Delete him. No one besides stoned NIN fans with a shitty sense of humor give a flying fuck about him. asshole.--Carl the dinosaur 10:50, 5 August 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Carl the dinosaur (talk • contribs) has made little or no other contributions outside this topic.


 * Weak keep Wiki is not paper, so I don't see where the arguments that his page "isn't worth it" are coming from. The problem with not notable subjects is that they tend to be fancruft and of poor quality, and the article certainly isn't Wikipedias worst. It has gone through significant improvement, and it should be noted that theninhotline is encouraging its readers to improve the article, not just to spam this page... GeorgeBills 13:27, 5 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Keep. Heltemes 16:31, 5 August 2006 (UTC) It would be really sad to delete this entry just because a few people don't understand the gentelman's work in question. Is he a huge internet celebrity, not really.  But, he is an internet celebrity none the less.  It would be nice to have usefull articles on artists w/in the internet as well as TV,movie, and radio celebs.  I can not think of one productive reason to delete this article.  Meathead has been around for a long while, and has been humering alot of people throughout his career (and not all nin fans are stoned and have a shi*%y sense of humor (carl the dinosaur)).  Also, by reading the comments left by people speaking on the keep / delete topic; it seems that the people wishing for meathead to be deleted are the ones who are throwing out inappropriate language and squabbling like little kids.  It makes me wonder if they want his article deleted because they truely think it is useless info, or because they are jealous that someone has actually made a career out of being a Meathead.  When in fact the squabblers have to try and get articles deleted on their spare time to be a Meathead.

Keep This whole thing is so silly. Look, I know people have said it before, but I think it bears repeating [again.] Meathead's page is linked from the official NIN site. The Hotline gets a massive amount of readers, and alot of that is due to the Perspective [which came directly from Leviathant who created the Hotline.] It's a hugely popular column. I just don't see how a deletion is warranted. The page has been fixed from its admittedly laughable beginnings [look, I had never done a Wiki entry before- so sue me] and has really developed into a well written and informative page. Giphangster 16:51, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I like it, please keep it.
 * Comment Holy sockpuppets, Batman! In my opinion, "Meathead" should go to the All in the Family character, and this article should be renamed.  Into what, I don't know, but I don't feel as though it should be deleted. Danny Lilithborne 21:54, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.