Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Melbourne Derby (cricket)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. The subject lacks coverage by reliable sources. De728631 (talk) 13:04, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Melbourne Derby (cricket)

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fails WP:NRIVALRY. No third party sources provided only sources are cricket scores. Not sure how a rivalry can be established in 4 games. Also nominating for same reasons:
 * Sydney Derby (cricket) LibStar (talk) 15:23, 31 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep: Significant coverage even in English newspapers. StAnselm (talk) 08:14, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
 * the 2nd source is not WP:INDEPTH, a mere one line mention. LibStar (talk) 15:08, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Cricket-related deletion discussions. StAnselm (talk) 08:15, 1 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep: I don't think this article should be nominated for deletion. As far I'm concerned, this article is worth it's presence in Wikipedia. The Hyundai A-League Melbourne Derby article is also present in Wikipedia. And that soccer derby is equally popular in terms of crowd attendance. Rather this cricket derby is more popular in terms of TV ratings. So I don't think it should be deleted. And yes it has been getting significant coverage even in the English media. And this season of Big Bash League, it has become much more popular in terms of TV ratings. This December, the cricket Melbourne derby got TV ratings in Australia 10 times more than that of the soccer Melbourne derby. Interestingly those two derbies were played in a gap of two days. Check this reference newspaper link. The word 'Melbourne Derby' is mentioned there if you don't believe Itz arka (talk) 10:05, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
 * the gap of 2 days is irrelevant to notability, the fact that another derby exists in soccer is a WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS argument. Also you should not remove the AfD tag in a desperate attempt to keep the article as you did here. LibStar (talk) 13:44, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
 * today the second Melbourne derby of the season witnessed a record cricket crowd of 42,837 at the Docklands Stadium beating the previous record of 38,000 of an ODI of Australia and South Africa a few years ago. Can't the decision of deletion be thought about again? It's really making news and getting coverage. Itz arka (talk) 11:41, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
 * 42,000 whilst seems large is not unusual for sport in Melbourne. 91,000 was at the Ashes test. In Melbourne, over 25 times a year you can get crowds greater than 50,000 for AFL.. LibStar (talk) 12:51, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
 * It's a record (which means it IS unusually large) for all cricket (including internationals) at the stadium, and their match last year at the MCG set the record for domestic T20 cricket.The-Pope (talk) 14:52, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
 * It is not a record for Melbourne, as the Melbourne Cricket Ground is the city's premier cricket venue. LibStar (talk) 14:58, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
 * the Melbourne record for a T20 (international) match is 62,000 at the MCG, in 2009. LibStar (talk) 15:09, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
 * No one said it was an all-Melbourne record. The football record is 121,000. What's your point? As we said, the derby holds records for all cricket at the stated ground, and a national record for domestic T20 cricket. Please try to use indentations correctly. The-Pope (talk) 15:16, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

But to someone not familiar with Melbourne it can seem a Melbourne record. The point is it is implied it beat an international record but that is only for that stadium which is not the premier cricket venue. LibStar (talk) 15:21, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I never said it is record for everything. I said its a record for all cricket matches played in Docklands Stadium where the maximum cricket crowd capacity is 52,000. So you can't expect the crowd in Docklands to be 91,000 like that in MCG. First know it properly that the match wasn't played at MCG. It was played in Docklands. Read my replies properly... Itz arka (talk) 15:31, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Again, you said it beat an international record but that is for a smaller stadium. when most international games are placed at MCG not docklands. LibStar (talk) 15:34, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
 * The fact whether anyone is familiar with Melbourne crowd or not is not the fact. And calling Docklands not a premier ground is not the point. Here Australia played against South Africa in international One Day match. Australia played against the World XI here long ago. So the premiership of this ground doesn't relate to the deletion of this article. The 'Sydney Derby' should be deleted, but not the 'Melbourne Derby' as it has significant coverage. You can Google about this 'Melbourne Derby' and check the news feeds so that you can see whether it has a significant coverage or not Itz arka (talk) 15:37, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

As a keep !voter the onus is on you to provide sources. See WP:MUSTBESOURCES. Please provide. LibStar (talk) 15:39, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete: Almost entirely unreferenced, giving the impression of OR, and certainly not notable enough for an article at this point.  Harrias  talk 09:52, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete: there are plenty of mentions of the name "Melbourne Derby" in routine coverage of the matches but there doesn't appear to be significant coverage of the rivalry itself, meaning it fails WP:NRIVALRY and WP:GNG. Hack (talk) 10:35, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000(talk) 14:46, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000(talk) 14:46, 1 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete. I'm not convinced by its notability and I can't seem to find too much in the way of significant coverage. Howzat?Out!Out!Out! (talk) 16:32, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete, per WP:NRIVALRY. Can't find any significant coverage.Doctorhawkes (talk) 07:11, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep, this derby holds the attendance records for cricket at Etihad Stadium (even exceeding international games) and the overall domestic T20 game. Articles like this refers to the results of the derbies for the year (but interestingly, not the positions of each team points table). I believe that this also qualifies it under WP:NEVENT, not just WP:NRIVALRY. foster cross-town rivalry, importance of cultivating a cross-town rivalry, rivalry in terms of when we go out to play against each other is 100 per cent real, short but fierce rivalry.  The-Pope (talk) 14:52, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
 * this article is written several months before they played their first match so crystal balls a rivalry. this article mentions rivalry in one line but is primarily about the financial viability of the renegades and not their relationship with the Melbourne Stars. LibStar (talk) 15:05, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
 * sum of many small parts = the whole. Crystal balls can come true sometimes. Virtually every match report or pre-game build up article refers to them as "cross town rivals". It's almost sky is blue stuff. And it's an WP:EVENT too. The-Pope (talk) 15:16, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
 * aren't match reports WP:ROUTINE coverage? My other concern is that this is not long standing (5 games) not like the Bledisloe Cup, the Ashes, State of Origin series.LibStar (talk) 15:26, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

*Keep, I vote for this article to be kept intact. It is making news this season and receiving good response from the Australian public. And don't know why this Herald Sun link is not being taken by Wikipedia (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/cricket/melbourne-derby-sets-new-etihad-stadium-crowd-record-as-bbl-reaches-new-heights/story-fn6w5lwh-1226795071340) Royalisha103 (talk) 15:50, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
 * how did you find this article with no prior edits? LibStar (talk) 15:54, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

— Royalisha103 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * note to closing admin please note Sockpuppet investigations/Itz arka/Archive regarding above user. LibStar (talk) 16:22, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Royalisha is a confirmed sockpuppet of Itz Arka. LibStar (talk) 13:19, 5 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep, As an avid Renegades fan and regular Big Bash attendee, I can tell you this rivalry is alive and well. I've attended every derby bar the first and at the second derby last year I and many other Renegades fans found ourselves booing Shane Warne. He is an Australian cricketing legend and a Victorian and we were booing him. If this doesn't speak magnitudes I don't know what else will. Does Wikipedia have a page limit or do people just get bored sometimes and nominate pages for deletion without any real and valid reason? Was the Melbourne Derby soccer page nominated for deletion at the same time because it had only been contested 4 times? The Herald Sun and The Age have always called this the Melbourne Derby as well as both teams. If this page is deleted it is an injustice. It's things like these that bring Wikipedia down. People are trying to supply information in the one place about an event that occurs in a city and people are trying to take it down. What a joke. Millsy29 (talk) 02:01, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * WP:ILIKEIT and WP:IKNOWIT are not reasons for keeping. Nor is a supposed injustice if the page is deleted (which all it does is really describe the results of 5 games) If booing Shane Warne is somehow a criterion for notability, that speaks magnitudes of the quality of sources to establish notability. LibStar (talk) 13:15, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Are poeople that bored? I honestly don't understand why you would remove a page from Wikipedia for any other reason. This is a legitimate rivalry which has been mentioned a countless number of times across all media. There are two videos on YouTube where each side discusses their thoughts on the rivalry. This shows first-hand that it's real. Millsy29 (talk) 02:20, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

This is nothing to do with being bored, Wikipedia has notability guidelines see WP:N. If it was automatically notable, everyone here would vote keep which is not the case. You have failed to provide one web link of sources. Instead saying WP:MUSTBESOURCES. LibStar (talk) 11:42, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete The article does not contain any references to establish notability, and I don't think that those provided above demonstrate that this is a notable rivalry: all professional sports games receive this kind of coverage as a matter of course. Nick-D (talk) 08:11, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment I am undecided as to whether this should be deleted or kept. Arguments for it to be kept include the very strong crowds these games attract (by far the highest crowds in each given year) and some fiery and memorable games being played (eg Warne vs Samuels in 2012-13). However, a true sporting rivalry can not be created instantly. It takes many years for this to occur. If this page (and Sydney Derby (cricket) does get deleted, I strongly feel that similar Australian sporting rivalry pages also need to be addressed, for exactly the same reason. These include Melbourne Derby (A-League), Sydney Derby (A-League), Battle of the Bridge (AFL) and QClash. Roboh11 (talk) 9:21, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment I note no one has argued for retention of Sydney Derby (cricket). LibStar (talk) 02:02, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment I think the Melbourne Derby is much more defensible at the moment, since the Sydney Thunder have performed so badly in their first few years, whereas the Melbourne teams have been more even. This may of course change in coming years. Roboh11 (talk) 13:10, 10 January 2014 (UTC)
 * The article still fails to address the rivalry in any great detail, let alone provide evidence of an actual rivalry. Not sure how that's defensible. Hack (talk) 02:20, 10 January 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.