Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Melchior Wakenstede


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Indrek Hargla. If a different redirect is preferred, please start a discussion on the redirect talk page or at WP:RFD. Liz Read! Talk! 21:02, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

Melchior Wakenstede

 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Contested redirect. I don't think individual notability of this character is indicated; however, I have not performed an Estonian WP:BEFORE. Ovinus (talk) 18:08, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. Ovinus (talk) 18:08, 3 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Titular character of a bestselling book series (7 books so far), that has been translated into multiple languages (at least 5 translations) and adapted into films (trilogy of films, that premiered in 2022). That article is also the most suited to talk about the Melchior series in general as there is no reason to make articles about the individual books. Ivo (talk) 18:27, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Literature, Film,  and Estonia.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 18:42, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Merge/redirect to Indrek Hargla per WP:FORK; or delete for failing WP:SIGCOV. This is an unnecessary content fork. I'm not seeing any reason to house this content separately from the article on Hargla at this point. We have zero content on the character itself in terms of literary or cultural analysis which means it fails GNG. Moving this content would highly benefit the article on Hargla by providing some context to his published works within the article on the author. If and when the article on Hargla developes further, and/or the content on the character becomes developed enough to warrant a fork we can always resplit the articles.4meter4 (talk) 20:58, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep per Ivo. The subject is the main character in seven bestselling novels. Disagree with 4meter4. Both articles can be expanded. Simply because they were created as little more than stubs doesn't make either subject less notable. Should both be expanded in separate articles. ExRat (talk) 08:31, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @ Based on what evidence and what policy? Articles on characters actually require sources about those characters with critical analysis/ significant coverage of the character in question. This means sources that actually analyze the character across the books and films as the main subject, not just within an individual review of a book or film. Just because a series has sold well and inspired screen adaptations, doesn't necessarily mean that significant publications addressing the character in those films and books actually exist. No evidence has been provided that the topic meets WP:SIGCOV, and with zero in depth independent sources as required by GNG on this topic I don't see how you can be voting keep. WP:INHERITED and WP:ILIKEIT arguments aren't convincing.4meter4 (talk) 19:36, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment. Who is invoking WP:ILIKEIT? Perhaps the article could be redirected to Indrek Hargla for now. Each of the novels could have their own articles in the future though, and where would the redirect for the character be then? ExRat (talk) 13:51, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @ I think you are putting the cart before the horse here. Without evidence of sources supporting a character article we simply can't have an article per policy at any point and time. A redirect/merge to the author is a reasonable solution, which is why I suggested it. That said, I think the most natural solution to the editorial problem would be to emulate the organization along the lines of Harry Potter; where the article is on the series as a whole itself. That should not be split off into individual books and characters until the article on the series is well developed (lots of sources and lengthy). In that article you can work on writing on each book, the character, the various media adaptions, etc. all in one page. Once a particular section is developed enough, then it can split off into its own article per policy at WP:SPINOFF. We should not be having tons of stub articles with so little information that they are essentially duplicates of one another, or have so little content that they make navigating to multiple pages unwieldy for our readers (just keep it all together until it needs to be broken out). I would start by writing on the series in the author article itself, and when it becomes unwieldy; move it to a page on the series with a summary in the author article and a main article tag. Look at J. K. Rowling for example. Best.4meter4 (talk) 15:25, 6 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Redirect to Melchior the Apothecary, which actually mentions the character's name. There's no coverage that would cause a GNG pass, and no information that's worth merging anywhere. Devonian Wombat (talk) 01:33, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment. That's the film though. The character is the subject of seven novels. Perhaps the article could be redirected to Indrek Hargla for now. ExRat (talk) 13:51, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 19:16, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Redirect to either Indrek Hargla or Melchior the Apothecary. Nothing in this article or the Estonian one indicates this meets WP:GNG criteria for a stand-alone article. No, being the main character of several bestselling (in Estonia only?) novels is not enough to warrant keeping this, not unless there is independent, reliable coverage of this fact. If we can locate media or better, scholarly, articles analyzing this character, allowing us to write a proper reception/significance section then GNG would be met. Ditto if we would find something about the importance of the series, then we could rewrite this into an article about a book series or franchise. But if nothing like this exits, this is just WP:FANCRUFT. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 08:42, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment. I'd just like to reiterate that if it should be redirected, it should be redirected to Indrek Hargla, not Melchior the Apothecary, which is a film version of one of the novels. It would make much more sense to redirect it to Hargla's article. Also, it doesn't matter if a bestselling novel was bestselling in Estonia or Guinea-Bissau, if it is properly referenced, has significant coverage (in any language), and passes notability. English language Wikipedia doesn't place priority on articles or subjects by their language. ExRat (talk) 14:56, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Redirect to Melchior the Apothecary as per others above.  Dr vulpes  (💬 • 📝) 01:34, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment. I just want to make it clear that I oppose a redirect to the TV series Melchior the Apothecary because it is not the best redirect target. The best target is to the author Indrek Hargla where the character can be discussed in relation to the multiple books, and adaptations of those books (including the television series) which all feature the character Melchior Wakenstede. A merge of the material in Melchior Wakenstede to Indrek Hargla would have the character mentioned in the author's page in detail. Best.4meter4 (talk) 19:33, 17 October 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.