Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Michael Carnes


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. Withdrawn by nominator. – Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 01:59, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Michael Carnes

 * – ( View AfD View log  •  )

Unsourced BLP since creation in 2004, unable to find any RSs (IMDB and this etc appear to be about an unrelated screen writer and the various books are about either Oceanography or new age healing etc) Jubilee♫ clipman 12:11, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete, no claim of notability. No non-wikipedia hits for "Fantasy Music 1" + his name. Speedy deletion candidate. Polarpanda (talk) 13:08, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete. Lack of sources and evidence of notability challenged for four months and no improvement made.  --Deskford (talk) 13:19, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete. per nom. -- Klein  zach  13:26, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment - There was a Michael Carnes involved in Composers in Red Sneakers, who seem to be a very notable group. This Michael Carnes was interviewed by the New York Times and the Boston Globe many times and also did work with the Philharmonic Orchestra. I can find nothing in this article to tie the two Michael Carneses together but if it is the same guy he is definitely notable. PanydThe muffin is not subtle 13:43, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep per Panyd's comment above. He does seem to be the same person mentioned in the NY Times, Boston Globe etc.. See his entry in this book and the information on his official website. Both bios match with the WP article and there's cross-matching of several of the compositions listed in the WP article, the reviews, the book, and on his website (although the website is not yet complete). Voceditenore (talk) 15:02, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * If this can be confirmed with certainty it will definately shed new light on this whole discussion. Notability will still need to be established, of course, but if the article is simply horribly incomplete and the vital info about Composers in Red Sneakers and the various interviews is truly missing then we should work on it rather than delete it obviously.  Anyone volunteer to verify?  I am engaged in another enormous task at present (look further down that page too...)  --Jubilee♫ clipman  17:15, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 15:10, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep per Panyd and Voceditenore. ♫ Cricket02 (talk) 14:31, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Update ♫ Cricket02 and I have now formatted and expanded the article with multiple references. I could probably add more, but I'm not going to while a "delete" is hanging over its head.;-) It may well be the consensus that what's been added is not enough, although I think it probably is. Voceditenore (talk) 16:32, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
 * NB:Withdraw AfD - per extensive work by Voceditenore and ♫ Cricket02 . Article is now substantial and verifiably about a notable subject. --Jubilee♫ clipman  13:29, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment I'm confused about this one. Which reference verifies him? Composers in Red Sneakers seem to have been reviewed and should be notable, but Carnes? Maybe I'm missing something? -- Klein  zach  05:56, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The entry in Blotner, "Michael Page Carnes", The Boston composers project: a bibliography of contemporary music is for the same full name as given in this article. His official website biography is the same and his works section lists the same works as in the book, e.g. "Fantasy Music I for Flute and Computer (1981, 5'50") Composed for MIT Experimental Music Studio and dedicated to Fran Carnes. Recorded on Northeastern Records (LP, NR-220)." The piece is on the "Composers in Red Sneakers" recording reviewed in the Philadelphia Inquirer (and several other specialist publications) and played on Music from New England, New Sounds, WYNC, 1 June 1987. The Red Sneakers NY concert reviewed in Holland, "Composers in Red Sneakers", New York Times, 13 October 1985 discusses his two songs for mezzo and marimba based on texts by e.e. cummings, also listed on his official website. To see his list of works on his website go to this page and click on the various genres to get the works in each type. Some of them have review excerpts. He now lives in Utah (which was in the WP article but removed by an earlier editor as "irrelevant" ), hence the world premiere of his Trio for flute, clarinet, piano which premiered at the Salt Lake City Festival in 2005. According to this, which also matches the bios in the other sources, he is Principal Engineer at Harman Music Group in Salt Lake City, although WP would not consider it a reliable source. I have subscription access to several more articles in Deseret News about concerts where his works were played in Utah. Some of the early Boston Globe reviews are unavailable on that service, though. They'd have to bought through Proquest or Newsbank. Now it may be that what's available doesn't establish his notability, but it definitely establishes who is he is and what's done. He is not this Michael Carnes. Voceditenore (talk) 07:14, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm. That little tour took me a few minutes . . . I guess the short answer is no, there is no such reference establishing notability for the man as opposed to the group. So once more I say Delete. -- Klein zach  08:09, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.