Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Michael Chobanian (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Consensus is sourcing is of insufficient quality. If someone wants to actively work on this in draft, I'm happy to provide it without going through REFUND. Star  Mississippi  02:26, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Michael Chobanian
AfDs for this article:


 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

Covert advertising article. Fails WP:BIO. Refs are either passing mentions, primary.  scope_creep Talk  18:42, 16 May 2022 (UTC) *Keep the article has been translated from Ukrainian Wikipedia. There are enough sources with not just short mentions, but deep reportage: Bloomberg, New York Times, Wall Steer Journal and a bunch of serious independent Ukrainian media sources. Easily passes WP:GNG as he is the couuntry's and slightly Eastern European leader in his sphere. Also, his fundraising efforts amidst Russian invasion of Ukraine are important and well covered too. Petrushchak ivan (talk) 11:43, 17 May 2022 (UTC).
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople, Cryptocurrency,  and Ukraine.  Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 18:56, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete Agree with nom, seems like an advertorial. Oaktree b (talk) 19:18, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment This article was a clear crypto-promotion goner the first time it was deleted some years back, but I'm wondering if the recent Ukraine fundraising coverage might not be sufficient for a Keep this time round. With a caveat that a fair few of the cited sources are still from the cryptosphere echo chamber and should be downweighted accordingly. user:Elmidae User talk:Elmidae --11:56, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Well, the below preempts my own slower trawl through the sources. Looks like a general lack of substance, so no dice. -- Elmidae (talk · contribs) 12:25, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Elmidae I think vice versa. I've added numerous new sources into the article and made it more substantial. the crypto fundraising made the by the article's subject is unprecedented. Senate Banking Committee hearing made by Chobanian and later outcomes are also an interesting integrap part of this article. IgorTurzh (talk) 15:02, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete as per nom. WP:SIGCOV is not established. Ari T. Benchaim (talk) 00:27, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

(edit conflict)
 * Comment
 * The sources are rank and typical of a paid for article on non-notable businessman, PR, primary interviews, passing mentions and some advertising. We will go through them:
 * Ref 1 Ukraine’s Crypto Banker Describes How War Is Changing His Life Interview, primary.
 * Reliable:Yes, Signifcant:Yes, Independent:No
 * Ref 2 The crypto capital of the world An interiew in part. Mostly covers crypto in ukraine, contrasts in with Poland.
 * Reliable:Yes, Signifcant:Yes, Independent:No
 * Ref 3 How Crypto Became Part of the War Michael Chobanian, the founder of the largest crypto exchange fund in Ukraine, explains how his company is soliciting donations for the Ukrainian war effort. Interview.
 * Reliable:Yes, Signifcant:Yes, Independent:No
 * Ref 4 Currency of last resort Chobanian — recently profiled by Bloomberg as “taking up Bitcoin instead of taking up rifles” — is the founder of Kuna, the cryptocurrency exchange which helped start Gleb Naumenko’s Bitcoin career. Interview. Primary.
 * Reliable:No, Signifcant:Yes, Independent:No
 * Ref 5 Американские криптобиржи Gemini, Bitstamp, Bittrex и bitFlyer объявили о создании саморегулируемой организации по цифровым товарам, таким как криптовалюты, сообщил Business Insider 20 августа. Press-release
 * Reliable:No, Signifcant:No, Independent:No
 * Ref 6 Mykhailo Chobanyan: The Ministry of Internal Affairs helped with Kuna PR, and the National Bank provided demand Ministry of Finance Press-release.
 * Reliable:No, Signifcant:No, Independent:No
 * Ref 7 Michael Chobanian is considered the “godfather of cryptocurrencies” in Ukraine. The son of a miner becomes one of the first Ukrainian Bitcoin miners, in 2015 he founded the country's first crypto exchange Kuna and set up the first Bitcoin ATM. PR.
 * Reliable:No, Signifcant:No, Independent:No
 * Ref 8 Ukraine crypto leader: 'Blockchain will help rebuild my country' Another interview.
 * Reliable:Yes, Signifcant:No, Independent:No
 * Ref 9 The road from public enemy to crypto warrior of Ukraine Fundraising page. Non-RS.
 * Reliable:No, Signifcant:No, Independent:No
 * Ref 10 Coindesk policy. Non-RS.
 * Reliable:No, Signifcant:No, Independent:No
 * Ref 11 IMF Warns That Crypto Mining Could Aid Countries Hit by Sanctions Passing mention.
 * ''Reliable:Yes, Signifcant:No, Independent:Yes

The references are very poor. The usual run-of-the-mill PR, press-release, reports on the company, interviews.  scope_creep Talk  12:07, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

Oppose Basically the references are not so poor. I will not discuss the previous long comment, but will add my own view. Regarding general notability criteria the subject meets them. There are plenty of sources on various occasins, which are not PR or press-releases but with brief, medium or deep coverage.
 * 1) This link works, as it's both reliable, independent and significant. Apart from the interview the journalist gives the reader weighted non-advertising information about Chobanian. This not routine analytical short story about the subject is enough to be a reliable source to be used on wiki. So, not advertising, but just neural coverage of the person with a small interivew on crypto topic. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-31/ukraine-s-crypto-banker-describes-how-war-is-changing-his-life
 * 2) several podcasts on WSJ helped generate a lot of news even in Poland (it was strange to find them occasionally on reputable Polish news, e.g. https://polskieradio24.pl/42/3167/Artykul/2919584,rosjanie-transferuja-majatki-za-granice-za-pomoca-kryptowalut-to-sposob-na-obejscie-sankcji )
 * 3) Concerning the general notability and impact of the subject, it's worth mentioning, that Chobanian's speech to the Senate Banking Committee, in which he described how Russians use cryptocurrencies to avoid sanctions, helped Republicans block Elizabeth Warren's law on sanctions for cryptocurrency exchanges working with Russia (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/18/business/dealbook/nickel-markets-trading.html ). According to Protocol media the specch also raised hopes that the crypto will be treated more positively in Capitol Hill (https://www.protocol.com/fintech/michael-chobanian-congress-crypto).
 * 4) Here is an independent and in-depth study of the state of cryptocurrencies in the world and Ukraine. Chobanian here is both slightly interviewed but also analysed and covered by the New Yort Times journalists (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/14/business/crypto-ukraine.html). I disaggree, that the source is not independent. Everyone is welcome to read.
 * 5) Forbes longread independent reliable and significant report/coverage on the "ideologist of the Ukrainian crypto-market" as Forbes claims Chobanian (https://forbes.ua/company/mikhail-chobanyan-ideolog-ukrainskogo-kriptovalyutnogo-rynka-i-sozdatel-birzhi-kuna-kak-on-gotovitsya-k-prikhodu-globalnykh-konkurentov-10082021-2229)
 * 6) Brief, but not paid, reliable coverage of the subject at LA Times: https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2022-03-17/war-ukraine-kyiv-try-keep-life-going
 * 7) An independent reliable news/story at Washington Post about Chobanian's efforts in fundraising money for Ukraine when Russia invaded https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/03/ukraine-cryptocurrency-donations
 * 8) Medium coverage of the subject at Bloomberg (2018): https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-10/revolution-anarchy-and-bitcoin-in-ukraine. Here he is called: "the father of Kyiv’s crypto community". Also there are his comments, other comments about him and a reporter's comments on crypto and Chobanian's activities.
 * 9) Brief but not passing mention at Fortune about Chobanian's crypto fund for Armed forces of Ukraine https://fortune.com/2022/04/08/crypto-ukraine-saving-lives-helping-oligarchs-sanctions-binance

So, the verdict is clear for me: Keep the article as the subject is notable, with quite history and media coverage and with a verified impact on crypto and not only sphere (biggest crypto fundraising in the world, first crypto exchange in CIS region, community building, etc). However it may be shortened, rewritten, fixed etc in order to meet all Wikipedia criteria and what WP is not. I agree that for English language auditory the translation of Ukrainian article may seem promotional, but it's more cultural differences and a zeitgeist (war with Russian and related stuff). --IgorTurzh (talk) 14:57, 17 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Comment One independent source and bunch of non-independent sources do not help the notability, still leaning delete. "Reliable" for our needs here doesn't mean "good", it means we (the wiki community) consider them unbiased sources. Sources written by the subject of the article aren't neutral. Basically you have one "sort of" good source that hardly says anything and a bunch of "not useable" sources. We need more of the first kind. Oaktree b (talk) 20:39, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Source 6 in particular only mentions him in passing. We need articles primarily about him, not written by him/independent from him and in notable publications as determined here: Reliable sources/Perennial sources. You still don't have enough to help keep the article. If you have more, please share them. Oaktree b (talk) 20:45, 17 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Delete per Nazi ideology this guy believes in. He support Nazi Armed forces of ukraine. he helps Nazi in ukraine and boasts about this fact in numerous articles. why so many write about him? he should be deleted as many other latent Nazi in ukraine. --Frische Frische (talk) 07:47, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
 * That is not an argument for deletion. You don't need to be nice to have an article, only notable. -- Elmidae (talk · contribs) 12:14, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
 * You are funny guy. Please stop disrupting wikipedia by spreading nonsense and Russian propaganda Petrushchak ivan (talk) 17:11, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
 * it's not propaganda, it's a neutral discussion. We consider all points. We have articles in wiki on everything from Grumpy Cat to horrible genocides. All get treated equally here. Oaktree b (talk) 16:53, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

Draftify I think I can rewrite and make it more suitable for wikipedia. Please put this article into a Draft space. I will search for new reliable sources. Petrushchak ivan (talk) 17:08, 23 May 2022 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, RL0919 (talk) 19:40, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * You have already indicated for keep.    scope_creep Talk  20:03, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I changed my mind Petrushchak ivan (talk) 11:06, 24 May 2022 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.