Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Michael J. Heming


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete.  Sandstein  07:57, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

Michael J. Heming

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Fails WP:NMMA, WP:MANOTE, WP:NKICK, and WP:NBIO. Virtually unreferenced except for two very tiny bits from non-viewable local obit. Information I've checked so far doesn't even check out when fact-checked: the European Karate Championships were not held in Brussels, either in 1979 or in 1980. Subject retired by the time he was 22 and died at the age of 23, achieved nothing of consequence. Softlavender (talk) 11:18, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. Peter Rehse (talk) 11:20, 25 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete - it's an impressive and detailed article which is almost completely unsourced and fails to establish any notability or even if the subject actually existed. Shritwod (talk) 12:55, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete As per above but to be fair the article does say it was the British version of the European Karate Championships that were held in Brussels. Of course that begs the question of how important that championship really was.Peter Rehse (talk) 15:01, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the comment, PRehse. The article and facts still don't make much sense or check out. The tournament and title involved (the one he supposedly later lost to Van Damme) is given several different dates and several different names and several different locations in this article. In the Jean-Claude Van Damme article this thing is currently called "European Karate Federation Middleweight Championship"; when first input it was called "European Professional Karate Association's middleweight championship" . In a 2003 book called Aestheticizing Violence, Or How to Do Things with Style, it says "When Van Damme arrived in America in 1981, he claimed that he was the European Professional Karate Association's Middleweight Champion. This claim was later disputed when the World Karate Association could find little or no evidence that he had ever competed, leading Black Belt Magazine to call Van Damme 'a complete fraud' ('Celebrity Bio')." WTF? That's the trouble with all of these completely or largely uncited martial-arts articles and records -- they could be largely fabricated or at the very least full of errors. And by the way, we are not talking about the Great Britain version here, we are talking (according to the current Jean-Claude Van Damme article) about the championship tournament of the European Karate Federation, which did not take place in Brussels in either 1979 or 1980, so the data is incorrect on a number of levels in both the Van Damme and the Heming article. That's probably just for starters. Softlavender (talk) 02:37, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. North America1000 18:09, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. North America1000 18:10, 25 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete Per above. Unsourced and unverifiable claims of notability. X4n6 (talk) 08:08, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete Why delete it, I came here tonight to learn about the guy and his fight history as well as his death.  As far as the discussion regarding the Championship.  This fight was held December 26th, 1979 at the La Coupe Fancois Persoons Karate Tournament which was sanctioned by the Federation bruxelloise de Karate in Brussels, Belgium. Jean-Claude was a member of the Belgium team and his final match enabled his team to win the European Team Karate Championship. In Full-Contact karate, Jean-Claude knocked out England's Micheal Heming in 46 seconds of the first round.  I was able to find it pretty easily notably imbd which appears to be a very factual article.  The second link shows newspaper articles with photos and information about the tournament.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000241/bio http://www.starsystemkickboxing.net/Pages/JeanClaudeVanDamme.aspx — Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.228.99.44 (talk) 10:06, 27 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete It starting to look like you guys might be right.  I've done a lot of looking into Heming.  I cannot get confirmation that the fight against Van Damme actually occurred on December 26th like imbd claims and also Heming's Wikipedia page. His name is not actually listed in the newspaper clipping only members of the German team. Those clippings also do not confirm that Van Damme ever fought any full contact matches for the title (some more question marks).  So in doubt I did reach out to Heming's last opponent (one of only a couple on his fight list I could confirm existed) and Dev Barrett did respond to me on Facebook.  He said he had no recollection of fighting Heming in Coventry at all which is very odd since the fight was listed as for the European Championship. He seemed upset that such an entry was posted on Wikipedia and I believe he had it removed today.  I responded and asked Sensei Barett if he ever heard of Heming or if he knew he actually existed.  I also asked him about Keith O'Grady who Heming was suppose to have won the title against. I can find no info about that fight or O'Grady.  Barett should know some of these guys because he fought over there during this time period.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.228.99.44 (talk) 00:08, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete as still questionable for any better notability and I doubt we're going to get a better article because of his death. SwisterTwister   talk  22:46, 31 March 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.