Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Michael Kefalianos


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. King of &hearts;   &diams;   &clubs;  &spades; 07:21, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Michael Kefalianos

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This article falls short of WP:ATHLETE and WP:BIO standards. Regent of the Seatopians (talk) 05:50, 22 January 2011 (UTC)  Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:46, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions.  -- -- Cirt (talk) 09:24, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 15:43, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Keep He is a notable bodybuilder. Have added a number of references to the article which prove notability.  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 13:47, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Do these references meet WP:RS guidelines? Regent of the Seatopians (talk) 02:18, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Which references do you think do not meet the guidelines and why? The IFBBpro.com and Bodybuilding.com references are probably the best. Are you concerned about the Greek language references? They are all independent citations. None are pointed to the bodybuilders' own website. Probably the least good references are the part-time specialised bodybuilding radio station and the local island newspaper. But they are both independent of the bodybuilder. Although I suspect that everyone at the local newspaper will be fans.  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 04:48, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 01:41, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
 * Comment The Bodybuilding.com site appears to be fan-driven. The IFBB site just mentions his placement in competition - there is no significant coverage of him. Most of the Greek-language sites appear to be amateur media. The fact that Mr. Kefalianos has never won a major tournament would also call into question his alleged importance within this fringe sport. Regent of the Seatopians (talk) 14:02, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Some portions of Bodybuilding.com are user created, others aren't. The articles and bios are rendered by employees, not users. Look at it as similar to the IMDB. Items like trivia or goofs are not considered RS because they are user generated. Items like producer, cast etc are reliable because they are produced by the site. The IFBB site, which is a reliable source, shows that he is not only a professional, but has competed in the sports equiv. of the Super Bowl. That easily puts him past ATHLETE.Niteshift36 (talk) 17:32, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment Just the fact that he ranked joint 16th at Mr. Olympia is notable in itself. He is the best bodybuilder in Greece, one of the top bodybuilders of Australia, and by ranking at Mr. Olympia he is a globally notable bodybuilder. Bodybuilding is not a fringe sport. Arnold Schwarzenneger is probably the best known bodybuilder. There are bodybuilding clubs all over the world and there are many kinds of competition. Michael Kefalianos has competed at the blue riband event of bodybuilding at Mr. Olympia. Have added more references to the article and there are many more available on the Internet. He is not invisible on Greek Google. Tagged for rescue.  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 17:26, 5 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Greece-related deletion discussions.  --   Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 18:06, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete Sorry, but the subject is far from notable. Real problems with WP:RS. I am uncertain if he qualifies for WP:ATHLETE. SanchiTachi (talk) 22:03, 7 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Note: The article under discussion here has been flagged for rescue by the Article Rescue Squadron. Snotty Wong   communicate 22:54, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete - The relatively reliable sources mostly only contain stats and such, no significant coverage. The rest of the sources don't appear terribly reliable to me.  Snotty Wong   communicate 22:54, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
 * The "relatively reliable" sources are in fact reliable sources that are backed up with other sources. We are talking about a bodybuilder and bodybuilders tend to be extensively photographed instead of extensively written about. I think that this individual qualifies for WP:ATHLETE because he ranked 3rd in the 2009 Australian competition which automatically qualified him for a Pro entry to Mr. Olympia and WP:ATHLETE. This individual is extensively photographed. If you take a look at the photographs in the references you can see that this is indeed a notable individual. Any bodybuilder who ranks at Mr. Olympia is notable and that bodybuilder specific rules should be accommodated within WP:ATHLETE for ranking athletes at Mr. Olympia (which is the equivalent of the bodybuilding Olympics).  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 00:14, 8 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Comment Qualifies for WP:ATHLETE no question. Just found another international tournament that he came 1st in in Germany in 2008.  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 00:34, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bodybuilding-related deletion discussions.    Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 01:08, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Moreover, WP:ATHLETE is not exclusionary []. Whether or not you consider that Michael Kefalianos meets WP:ATHLETE he is still an exceptional athlete who is being sponsored because of his exceptional ability and who has come 1st in International Competitions (against Professional Bodybuilders) and has qualified as a professionally recognised IFBB pro bodybuilder.  Nipson anomhmata   (Talk) 10:54, 8 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep As little time as I have for ATHLETE, I don't see how it can be argued that he fails it, given that Mr. Olympia is the highest level of the sport. The real question is whether he passes the GNG. The depth of coverage here is a lot better than for the typical half-a-dozen-games Football League player, so I see no issue there either. —WFC— 03:06, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep I agree with WFC and per Μιχάλης Κεφαλιανός ο Κορυφαίος Ελληνας Bodybuilder Translation: "Michael Kefalianos the top Greek bodybuilder." INews.gr, 17 June 2010. This guy is called the top Greek bodybuilder and we want to delete his article? Further, bodybuilding is not usually covered by the mainstream media so the reliance here is more on specialist websites and other trade publications. Given the inherent coverage constraints of Greek bodybuilding as a whole, the existing sources provide adequate evidence of notability. Dr.K. λogosπraxis 14:08, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep: He is a professional. That is verified by the IFBB website. Niteshift36 (talk) 17:27, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.