Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Michael Pendragon


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Cirt (talk) 00:34, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Michael Pendragon

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Autobiography Hagiography of non-notable writer Orange Mike   &#x007C;   Talk  05:16, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Michael Pendragon is a notable writer.

He is listed in the Directory of Poets and Writers (put out by Poets & Writers); and in Whos' Who in America (of which Mr. Lowrey shares a similar distinction). He had his own interactive author discussion page at the Terror Tales website and a similar publisher's page at Horror World.

His notability as a publisher is evinced by the inclusion of his press in The Poet's Market, The Novel & Short Story Writer's Market, The Directory of Poetry Publishers, and many others.

He has received numerous awards and nominations for his writing, including honorable mention in The Year's Best Fantasy & Horror, and having been twice voted Supreme Terror Scribe by his peers. Both his writing and his publications have been written about in The Mammoth Book of Best New Horror.

He has been awarded membership in The Poets Guild, The Doppelganger Society, and The Society of Terror Scribes.


 * Part of Mr. Lowrey's objection to this article appears to stem from his assumption that I have "a close connection" with Mr. Pendragon. I met Mr. Pendragon twice, about 15 years ago, at a pair of invitation only events given by the Poetry Society of America in Manhattan.  He gave me a copy of one of his publications, Penny Dreadful (a multi-author literary journal specializing in horror short stories and poetry).  I emailed him after reading the journal and have remained in touch with him over the years (we exchange a few emails each year).  I am a fan of his writing, and have followed his career, but am hardly what one would consider to be a close connection.

I have submitted the article (along with any significant changes) to Mr. Pendragon prior to posting it at Wikipedia for verification, and have corrected any information noted as inaccurate. I also requested that he supply the photograph which illustrates the article.

His works have been published in The United States, Canada, England, Ireland, Wales, India, South Africa, and Australia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.116.247.13 (talk) 15:12, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * So, whoever you are, you have a conflict of interest and have been relying on the subject's own word and claims for information. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  17:02, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

How does an extensive knowledge of an author's publications qualify as a conflict of interest???

If you look at the list of publications supplied in the article -- many of which can be found on the internet (and do a little research - hint: try checking out the references) you'll see that Masque Noir is published in Australia, Terror Tales in England, etc. I don't know who you are, Orange Mike, but you seem to be dead set on removing this article.

Why?

If you haven't heard of Michael Pendragon, you should look at the numerous times he's been cited in various editions of the Mammoth Book of Year's Best Horror and Year's Best Fantasy & Horror to see that other people are very familiar with him.

I should think that you would want to base his "notability" upon the fact that he was a significant enough figure to appear in such books, rather than on your own unfamiliarity with him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Petemarkham2 (talk • contribs) 07:56, 15 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Your conflict of interest stems from the fact that the writer seems to be a friend of yours, your have been consulting with him about this article and relying on what he has told you, and thus you may be considered not to have a neutral point of view about him.

A BOOK SEARCH (recommended above) at Amazon.com produced the following results: 1. PENNY DREADFUL #13 - Multi-author Literary Horror Journal published by and containing work by Michael Pendragon; 2. COBWEBS & WHISPERS - Award winning short story collection by Scott Thomas containing an Introduction by Michael Pendragon; 3. TALES OF DEVILTRY & DOOM - Short story collection by John B. Ford containing an introduction by Michael Pendragon; 4. THE BIBLE OF HELL - Multi-author collection of poetry and short stories published by Michael Pendragon and containing some poems and short stories of his own; 5. THE BEST AMERICAN SHORT STORIES 2005 - Multi-author short story collection containing Mr. Pendragon's Literary Journal, SONGS OF INNOCENCE, as one of its sources; 6. NIGHTSCAPES - Short story collection by Michael Pendragon, published by BJM Press, England; 7. BEST NEW HORROR (MAMMOTH BOOK OF BEST NEW HORROR, 2002 - Multi-author collection citing works by Michael Pendragon; 8. THE YEAR'S BEST FANTASY & HORROR, NO. 15 - Multi-author collection featuring writeups of Mr. Pendragon's publications, and featuring work published in them; 9. BEST NEW HORROR (MAMMOTH BOOK OF BEST NEW HORROR, 1999 - Multi-author collection citing works by Michael Pendragon; 10. BEST NEW HORROR (MAMMOTH BOOK OF BEST NEW HORROR, 2004 - Multi-author collection citing works by Michael Pendragon; 11. THE BEST AMERICAN SHORT STORIES 2002 - Multi-author short story collection containing Mr. Pendragon's Literary Journal, SONGS OF INNOCENCE, as one of its sources; 12. GARGOYLE 43 - Multi-author literary journal reviewing Mr. Pendragon's publications; 13. WRITE WITH FIRE (THOUGHTS ON THE CRAFT OF WRITING) - Charles Gramlich, includes example of Mr. Gramlich's correspondence to Mr. Pendragon; 14. 10. BEST NEW HORROR (MAMMOTH BOOK OF BEST NEW HORROR, 2001 - Multi-author collection citing works by Michael Pendragon; 15. THE YEAR'S BEST FANTASY & HORROR, NO. 19 - Multi-author collection featuring writeups of Mr. Pendragon's publications, and featuring work published in them.

And that's just what's currently available at Amazon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.116.247.13 (talk) 22:15, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * All sorts of self-published and vanity stuff is available at Amazon. None of this is even remotely relevant to this discussion. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  17:02, 13 January 2010 (UTC)



The Mammoth Book of Year's Best Horror and the Year's Best Fantasy and Horror are hardly vanity publications! These are well known and well respected books that appear yearly in major bookstores.

Mammoth is published in England and Year's Best F&H in NYC by St. Martins Press. These books include write ups of Mr. Pendragon's publications and writings in the horror field. Geez, look them up at the Barnes & Noble site:

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/The-Years-Best-Fantasy-and-Horror/Ellen-Datlow/e/9780312290696/?itm=3&USRI=ellen+datlow%2c+year%27s+best+fantasy+%26+horror

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/results.asp?WRD=mammoth+book+of+best+new+horror&box=mammoth%20book%20of%20best%20new%20horror&pos=-1 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Petemarkham2 (talk • contribs) — Petemarkham2 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Timotheus Canens (talk) 05:46, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I did not say that either of those was a vanity publication (although naturally I will ignore the sales pitches made at giant predatory booksellers' websites); in fact, I know the editor of one of those two anthologies and believe she knows me as well. I merely was pointing out that all sorts of junk is on Amazon, and thus a listing of what's on Amazon is not relevant to this discussion. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  21:21, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Poetry-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 15:37, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions.  -- • Gene93k (talk) 15:37, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete - I think that the history is that an SPA User:Spellbinder666 created the article on 13 May 2008. Many subsequent edits were made by SPA User:Michael Scarlotti (and the author's birth name is Michaelangelo Scarlotti.) The article was nominated for deletion on 6 April 2009. User:Ascidian removed the AFD tag because it was not properly listed three days later. It was then tagged with db-bio on 19 September 2009. An IP address removed the tag the same day. A dated prod was then added using COI as its basis, and that tag was endorsed by Orange Mike. The article was then deleted, but restored by JohnCD on 2 January 2010. Subsequently IP editors have been adding references to the restored text. With that explanation, I still view it as spam. Racepacket (talk) 17:44, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Mea Culpa. I picked his name as a username while editing. I never thought anyone would ever take issue with it. I suppose if I logged on as "Archie Leach" while editing the article on Cary Grant, someone would claim his ghost was responsible it.

Of course the fact that it would be self-defeating for an author to sign his own name to an article he posted about himself never enter anyone's mind.

You know, I'm sorry I ever posted here. I thought that sharing my knowledge of a well known small press publisher/author would be appreciated here. Trying to prove his "notability" to people who dismiss well known Year's Best books as possible "vanity" publications without even bothering to look them up is more frustration than I need.

Orange Mike's knowledge or ignorance of a subject appears to be all that matters here. Fuck it. Delete the goddam article. I've had enough of this idiocy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Petemarkham2 (talk • contribs) — Petemarkham2 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * As a matter of fact, I am not without some expertise in the field, and one of the things I know is that this is not the 1950s: there are a myriad of small self-publishers and micro-publishers, not all of whom are notable the way Arkham House is notable. I know also that there are many authors who sell a few stories to major markets, without necessarily becoming notable. I deeply regret that you have turned this into a personality clash instead of a rational discussion. The rest of us will continue this discussion without you, apparently, but will nonetheless look into the issues you raised in between the personal attacks and insults. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  21:21, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh -- I also know that The Poets Guild, The Doppelganger Society, and The Society of Terror Scribes is a list of three non-notable organizations. If Scarlotti/Pendragon/whatever is a member of the Horror Writers Association, like many of the notable writers I know and that know me, that would mean something. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  21:26, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry to learn that you see this as a personality clash, Orange Mike. Perhaps I was reading your comments incorrectly, but it appeared from your dismissal of my references to highly respected books like The Year's Best Fantasy & Horror" (in which Mr. Pendragon is continually cited in the editors' opening chapter summarizing notable events in the horror medium over the previous year) as not being "even remotely relevant" that you had already made up your mind on the matter, and were refusing to even consider what I believe to be valid sources.

I'm glad to hear that you are an expert on the workings of the small press, and that you both know and are known by many notable writers. I have met and spoken with a few writers (who I consider notable) at poetry readings and such, but cannot boast that any of these have any knowledge of me. I have queried Mr. Pendragon as to whether or not he is a member of the HWA, and am afraid that his reply would not be suitable for print. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.116.247.13 (talk) 15:22, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.