Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Michael Sarver


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. WP:SNOW  MBisanz  talk 23:25, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Michael Sarver

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Another article for a non-entity reality TV contestant. Fails WP:BIO, WP:RS and WP:MUSIC. Unless this guy wins (which will be a long time off anyway), releases an album/single or is found to be noteable in some other way, then it's delete, delete, delete. Dalejenkins | 23:26, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep. American Idol finalists get their own articles. They are notable by virtue of the fact that they are members of the Top 12 of one of the, if not the, most popular reality TV shows currently airing. The vast majority of AI contestants go on to make records, star in Broadway productions, etc. The article needs to be expanded over time, not deleted. Hermione1980 23:32, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
 * No they don't. They need to pass the guidlines that I mentioned previously. And none of this Broadway/album stuff has occured yet - Wikipedia is not a crystal ball and therefore this article should be deleted. A sub-section of the American Idol Series 8 will do in the mean time. Dalejenkins | 23:35, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
 * WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS is no excuse aswell. Also, as you are a member of WP:IDOL and declare on your page that you are an American Idol fan, I feel that WP:ILIKEIT needs to be considered. Dalejenkins | 23:44, 23 February 2009 (UTC)


 * No. I am not a member of WP:IDOL. I merely notified the members on the WikiProject talk page that the articles were up for deletion. If you think that my rationale is WP:ILIKEIT, I think your rationale is WP:IDONTLIKEIT. Please stop assuming I'm unfamiliar with Wikipedia policies and processes. I understand that I am allowed to comment on AfDs with any rationale I choose, and the closing admin can take it or leave it. I do not !vote on articles based on whether "I like them". I !vote on them because I feel they need to be either kept or deleted. Hermione1980 23:49, 23 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep From WikiProject Idol series: "For contestants, it has been decided that only finalists should qualify for their own article based on their participation in the show. Semi-finalists who are not otherwise notable are redirected to their season's article." Sarver passes #9 from WP:MUSIC. Reliable sources need to be found.Aspects (talk) 00:04, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * WP:IDOL is a WikiProject, not a guidline. It means absolutely nothing. Dalejenkins | 00:09, 24 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Strong Keep per above. ApprenticeFan (talk) 00:32, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep per my note on the Gokey nom. Another silly, point-y nomination. H2O Shipper 01:05, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep A Google search confirms Mr. Sarver's notability: . Please add some references to the article. Pastor Theo (talk) 01:27, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep as per Aspects. Meets notability guidelines. Edward321 (talk) 03:32, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete - no convincing evidence a few TV appearances should earn one a berth in a serious encyclopedia. - Biruitorul Talk 05:07, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * This is your opinion and nothing more. Every precedent here is on the side of keeping, yet you recommend deletion. As I said on one of the other point-y noms, not liking something isn't reason enough for deletion. H2O Shipper 05:11, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Ignoratio elenchi. - Biruitorul Talk 06:56, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep Why do we go through this EVERY SINGLE YEAR? We have a very long precedent for this. AI finalists receive articles. Period. All you need to do is to look at any of the templates here or the Wikiproject for Idol. Or the many many previous AfDs on this matter. American Idol is such a big show in the United States (it's the #1 program by several ratings points year after year) and there has been such success to come out of the show (38 charted artists in 7 seasons according to Billboard magazine) that the finalists are notable just for being on the program. Just do a google search for Alexis Grace, Danny Gokey or Michael Sarver and you will see I mean. I wish we could stop doing this every year. Hate to be snippy here but I'm tired of saying this every single year. :) --User:Woohookitty Diamming fool! 09:33, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep. Sufficiently sourced, and most importantly, we have articles (the notability of which is established) on all previous American Idol contestants. This indicates that, regardless of a contestant's performance, they will be notable after the show ends. Why delete an article just because there are a few months before someone becomes notable, when we know they will? If we deleted all the "tabloid trash" and related stuff, Wikipedia would, most likely, suffer harm. Bart133 t c @ How's my driving? 02:15, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep Haha. Dalejenkins is an attention whore and should probably join American Idol season 9 -- 23 prootie cute 
 * I strongly suggest you refactor your personal attack. Hermione1980 02:40, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm British. And I wouldn't join some US trailer-trash-circus if my life depended on it. But that's not for wiki.... Dalejenkins | 17:20, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Stupid This debate is clearly non-sense as proven by Dalejenkins personal opinion above as a fabulous superfan of the show -- 23 prootie cute 
 * Keep Some editors need to stop geming the system. If its not hurting you pesonally, then don't worry about it.--Jojhutton (talk) 04:21, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
 * That's a ridiculous statement. Then what is the point of WP:AFD or even Wikipedia itself.... Dalejenkins | 17:20, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

List of redundant arguments that are on this, and the other 2, AFDs
Please read - Dalejenkins | 17:46, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
 * People stating that the articles pass WP:BIO/WP:MUSIC/WP:NOTE when they haven't read these policies
 * It doesn't matter if American Idol is the biggest show in the US - that does not determine notability. See also - WP:IKNOWIT and WP:ITSA.
 * Search engine tests for notability are not suitable to detirmine notability.
 * "We've set a precident - deal with it" is rubbish. Consensus can change.
 * Just because other American Idol contestants have articles, doesn't mean that these 3 should.
 * "We talked about this last year" is another redundant argument - this is 2009.
 * AFDs consist of discussion, not votes. People stating on this, and the other 2 related AFDs, that the majority believes something so therefore it is right is incorrect and arguments should be thorough.
 * "We've got loads of related articles and they aren't doing any harm" is silly.
 * It doesn't matter wheter you think they'll be worthy of note in the future. We're discussing the here and now.
 * Last comment here: I rely not solely on precedent in my "keep" recommendation, though precedent in this case is long and persuasive. However, if long established precedent alone is not enough to sway, it should be noted that all three articles have 1000+ Gnews hits. This series of AfDs seems far more about what some wish were the case regarding standards for inclusion in Wikipedia than what actually is the case. H2O Shipper 19:37, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
 * And well done, you also just broke WP:POPULARPAGE. Dalejenkins | 21:17, 25 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Merge into American Idol (season 8) along with Alexis Grace and Danny Gokey. There simply is not enough information on them to warrant their own articles yet...  Eventually when more info comes we can re-create the pages, but there just isn't enough right now.  The info. will just be redundant and duplicate here. Ejfetters (talk) 03:28, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep American Idol Top 12 finalist, what more notability would one need?! --Ekabhishek (talk) 17:53, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep AI finalists qualify for their own article - they're notable by definition. &mdash; CJewell (talk to me) 20:14, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep Per previous rationale. Sam  Blab 01:25, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. Other Idol-related articles have the winner and its runners-up notable for Wikipedia.  The only way for these finalists to have its own articles is when they have their own album, which would pass notability issues. 114.198.145.132 (talk) 13:57, 27 February 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.