Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Michael and Marisa (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Black Kite (talk) 21:50, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Michael and Marisa
AfDs for this article: 
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Low profile fringe pop performers claiming notability by contagion (opened for notable acts). See WP:NOTCONTAGIOUS. Orange Mike &#124;  Talk  02:53, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Massachusetts-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 13:00, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 13:00, 8 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Moved here from talk page of AfD - This page has not been updated in years and needs to be. It will updated properly.  New information regarding this duo demonstrates that they are a viable pop/adult contemporary duo with enough celebrity to warrant their page.  New substantial information:  Michael and Marisa have been written up in Billboard Magazine, on CNN.com, Huffington Post, AOL, in Parent's Magazine, J-14 magazine, and many others.  Checking on google will confirm.  Their anti-bullying music is part of the school curriculum of many schools across the U.S. and they are spokespeople for PACER which is described on the Wikipedia Unity Day page as a renowned anti bullying organization based in Minneapolis endorsed by Ellen Degeneres.  Michael and Marisa are releasing their third album of original music written with some of the most renowned producers in music who have volunteered to co-write and produce with them.  They have won major songwriting awards from a Nashville based organization (19,000+ international entries and Michael and Marisa honorable mention).  Last month they were they opened all across the U.S.on the national tour of the band "Rixton" (see Wikepedia page), who is a platinum artist with a #14 song on pop radio and #1 in the U.K.  Next month they are opening for Demi Lovato (X-Factor Judge, Top 40 artist, actress etc. see Wikipedia page).  When doing appearances thousands of high school and college kids line up for meet and greets in cities across the U.S. Bottom line is that Michael and Marisa are celebrities that warrant a Wikipedia page, however the page needs to be updated properly with current information that shows that.  Childish references like playing with Legos need to be replaced with references to being written up in Billboard Magazine, a respected magazine for the music industry.  I will make sure that the page is properly updated.  Michael and Marisa have had a wikipedia page since 2009 and have done 300 shows nationwide at viable venues such as the Bamboozle Tour, Six Flags Amusement Park Arenas, Whisky-a-Go-Go, Roxy, Lincoln Center, Webster Hall, NY and 100's of others.  They have also done a lot of philanthropic work.  In addition to PACER mentioned        above, most recently they have been active with A Beautiful Life Foundation which was established to stream music into Children's Hospitals across the country.  They have also held fundraising concerts for Toys for Tots and Doug Flutie's Autism charity and last month donated a concert as part of Ecofest held at Times Square in New York City.  Sorry for the length of this.  Trying to show that Michael and Marisa are substantial enough to warrant their page.  Looking for support not to delete the page.  Googling Michael and Marisa will confirm.  Press is posted on their website Michaelandmarisa.com as well as info. on the producers involved.  Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pinheadduffey (talk • contribs)  — Pinheadduffey (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Please see these articles below including Huffington Post, CNN, PBS Kids, Parents magazine, Billboard Magazine for the trade and the various others about Michael and Marisa. After all the on line links there is a link to newspaper press.

-The duo has an album they wrote produced by major producers about to be released to the radio (Jonas Brothers co-wrote). -Duo just toured the U.S. with platinum top 40 artist "Rixton" and was their concert opener -Duo will be touring as opener for Demi Lovato later this month.

Billboard Magazine:

http://michaelandmarisa.wordpress.com/2011/11/07/were-in-billboard-magazine/

Huffington Post:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/30/vazquez-sounds-8-teen-sib_n_1121394.html (Michael and Marisa are second. Click arrow to the right)

CNN:

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-500234

J14 Magazine:

http://www.j-14.com/posts/exclusive-q-a-with-michael-and-marisa-2435

Parent's Magazine:

http://www.parents.com/blogs/goodyblog/tag/michael-and-marisa/

PBSKids

http://pbskids.org/itsmylife/blog/2010/07/michael-and-marisa.html

Stardoll (Celebrities have dolls and users dress them up):

http://www.stardoll.com/en/dolls/1638/Michael_and_Marisa.html

Ocean Up:

http://oceanup.com/2011/01/29/michael-marisa-the-same-anti-bullying/#.VBBiGBa4lHg

Commonsensemedia.org:

https://www.commonsensemedia.org/music-reviews/kickin-it-together

Twist Magazine:

http://www.twistmagazine.com/posts/check-out-michael-and-marisa-s-new-music-video-7375

Tangled Ball/PACER:

http://tangledball.blogspot.com/2011/03/what-we-can-learn-from-pacer-great.html

Mindful of Music:

http://mindfulofmusic.blogspot.com/2011/10/interview-with-michael-and-marisa.html

OpEd News:

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Boston-s-Michael-and-Maris-by-Patricia-Duffey-110202-336.html

Relate Magazine:

http://www.relatemag.com/2010/08/pop-with-a-rock-edge-singers-michael-and-marisa/

Stars2come:

https://www.commonsensemedia.org/music-reviews/kickin-it-together

Kidzworld:

http://www.kidzworld.com/article/15541-michael-and-marisa-interview

Newspaper Articles/Press:

http://michaelandmarisa.com/press — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.176.152.255 (talk) 00:21, 12 September 2014 (UTC) 
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica1000 02:15, 16 September 2014 (UTC)



-Original Message- From: James Cummins  To: Sent: Wed, Sep 10, 2014 9:47 am Subject: Response to your inquiry about visibility in Wikipedia

Dear

Thank you for considering WikiExperts! In order to determine if you qualify for a Wikipedia profile, can you please send us 7-10 examples of substantial press coverage you have received over your career (not including press releases), which have not already appeared on the page? These kinds of references are required for any new entry to stay up on the site.

Best regards,

James Cummins COO, WikiExperts.us JC@WikiExperts.us (917) 725-2030 Skype: jc.wikiexpert

Dear James,

Many thanks for your response. Here are the articles you requested about Michael and Marisa. After all the on line links there is a link to newspaper press. Please let me know what other information you need so that the page is not deleted. The duo has an album they wrote about to be released (Jonas Brothers co-wrote a song), just toured the U.S. with platinum top 40 artist "Rixton" as their concert opener, and will be touring as opener for Demi Lovato later this month. I appreciate whatever you can communicate at Wikipedia so that the Michael and Marisa page stays active as it has been since 2009. It definitely needs updating and I will make sure that happens. Many thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.176.152.255 (talk) 00:21, 12 September 2014 (UTC) 
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica1000 02:15, 16 September 2014 (UTC)




 * Delete – sources do not show that the subject has received WP:Significant coverage in reliable, independent sources. The involvement of WikiExperts, a banned paid-editing firm, also raises red-flags as to notability and WP:COI--Hirolovesswords (talk) 07:10, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

"STRONG KEEP" - notability demonstrated through coverage in many reliable sources. viable performance history. significant contribution to anti-bullying --Pinheadduffey 12:26, 17 September 2014 (UTC) — Pinheadduffey (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * Delete Fails WP:MUSICBIO and it been created in violation of the ban by the Community on WikiExperts and speedy deletion under WP:G5 may be applicable .Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 19:27, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete Turns out I nominated this for deletion back in 2009 (!) and it's still apparently not notable. The level of claimed notability above simply does not match what sources exist about the duo. § FreeRangeFrog croak 19:59, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Mattel Toys has a line of dolls called: “I Can Be….”. The dolls have different occupations such as doctor, pilot, veterinarian etc. Marisa was asked by Mattel to represent the line as the “I Can Be….a Drummer.” Here is the link to the video that Mattel made and put on their web site. There was a video for each occupation on the site.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrvaIpKUsSc — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.176.152.255 (talk) 16:32, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

Marisa is endorsed by Vic Firth (drum stick co.)

Michael and Marisa were openers on many Rixton tour dates in August 2014. Rixton is the opener for Ariana Grande’s 2015 tour beginning in February. Ariana Grande is one of the top artists in the U.S., if not the world right now. She opened up the Video Music Awards six weeks ago and has several top ten songs on the radio right now. In other words, Rixton is a big deal and they wouldn’t have Michael and Marisa opening for them if the duo weren’t very significant in the entertainment business. Michael and Marisa have spent the last two years writing and recording a CD and played the songs from it on this tour. No covers. Their set was 25 minutes each night. They play drums, guitar, bass guitar, ukelele and keyboards and sing without any backup players on the stage, just the duo. Rixton, Ariana Grande and Justin Bieber all have the same management that approved Michael and Marisa as an opener on the Rixton tour. Here is the link to footage of it with Michael and Marisa at El Rey Theatre in Los Angeles a hugely reputable place. Here’s another link to a review of the Rixton and Michael and Marisa performances which compares Michael to Michael Buble and Marisa to Colbie Caillat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLcD-QHxRQ8

http://techtonicpop.com/2014/08/michael-and-marisa-rixton/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.176.152.255 (talk) 16:13, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

More links showing international recognition and that duo is viable Wikipedia subject:

Video LIsting on IMDB:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2069853/

Popstar Magazine:

http://www.popstaronline.com/tag/michael-and-marisa/

Pens Eye View:

http://www.penseyeview.com/content/michael-marisa

PACER:

http://www.pacer.org/bullying/video/player.asp?video=46

Kids Music:

http://en.kidsmusic.info/artists/michael-and-marisa

Dear Bully:

http://dearbully.wordpress.com/2012/02/16/michael-marisa-the-same/

School posting "The Same" lyrics for their school:

http://moodle2.wythe.k12.va.us/mod/url/view.php?id=1242

Modoration:

http://modoration.com/tag/michael-and-marisa/

M Magazine:

http://www.m-magazine.com/posts/new-group-to-watch-meet-m-fave-michael-marisa-12068

Twist Magazine:

http://www.twistmagazine.com/posts/check-out-michael-and-marisa-s-new-music-video-7375

The Boston Globe:

http://www.boston.com/ae/music/articles/2009/08/14/teen_duo_michael__marisa_are_not_kidding_around/

J-!4 Magazine:

http://www.j-14.com/tags/michael-and-marisa-2826

The chords to a Michael and Marisa song listed on Ultimate-guitar.com:

http://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/m/michael_and_marisa/beautiful_comeback_crd.htm

The chords to a MIchael and Marisa song listed on Guitar Tab:

http://www.guitaretab.com/m/michael-and-marisa/

Michael and Marisa mentioned on sites in other countries: Their reach is worldwide including Australia, Middle East, Europe, South America, Far East:

French: http://www.vagalume.com.br/michael-and-marisa/

Russian: http://www.amalgama-lab.com/songs/m/michael_and_marisa/the_same.html

Justine Magazine:

http://www.primarywavemusic.com/news/post/MTgwLWQwYTgxNQ/

Relate Magazine:

http://www.relatemag.com/2010/08/pop-with-a-rock-edge-singers-michael-and-marisa/

In CD Compiltation for Project Believe in Me, Nat'l Charitable Org:

http://holdonanotherday.bandcamp.com/track/beautiful-comeback

Review - New York City:

http://www.perpetualtoxins.com/100717-mam.shtml

The Star Scoop:

http://www.thestarscoop.com/music/michael-and-marisa-interview-if-kids-tell-kids-its-more-powerful/

Ticketfly.com:

http://www.ticketfly.com/event/591253-rixton-seattle/

Lyric Site listing songs:

http://www.lyrster.com/songs-lyrics/michael-and-marisa-the-same.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.176.152.255 (talk) 16:27, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

Patch Game company made over 70.000 games with three different Michael and Marisa song titles and enclosed in the game a CD with the song matching the title of the game or a download card with the song.

More Links:

http://www.wickedlocal.com/article/20110927/News/309279436

http://sweetwithstreet.blogspot.com/2011/04/hidden-michael-and-marisa-doll.html

http://rockycoastnews.blogspot.com/2012/02/musician-spotlight-boston-based-band.html

http://www.pacer.org/bullying/video/listing.asp?category=teensagainstbullying

http://gosong.net/michael_and_marisa.html

http://www.totalentertainment.biz/our-rentals/djs-sound-lighting/bands.aspx

http://www.cambio.com/2011/05/12/michael-and-marisa-you-feel-like-saturday/

http://davidarchuletavn.com/2010/05/06/michael-marisa-with-david-archuleta-at-house-of-blues/

http://on.aol.com/video/cambio-music-presents-michael-and-marisayou-feel-like-saturday--517270165

https://www.nassp.org/KnowledgeCenter/TopicsofInterest/BullyingPrevention/MediaResources.aspx

http://www.wbaf.org/friends/musicArts/index.html

In Spanish:

http://karolayneminhamoda.blogspot.com/2011/04/michael-and-marisa.html

Daisy Rock arttists:

http://www.daisyrock.com/artists/list/m

http://www.wambie.com/en/p/830

http://www.schooltube.com/video/8d8ac4b30fd150c1db95/Bullying%20Video

Chinese:

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNDE4MjM0ODI0.html

In award winning movie: "Bullied to Silence": http://www.bulliedtosilence.com/About/Cast

Segment on Catholic TV: http://gloria.tv/?media=132412&language=YiwzPCkSG6u

http://celebritytoob.com/actress/meredith-prunty/

http://singleparenttravel.net/2011/04/a-strong-message-about-bullying/

http://www.musicstop.org/michael-marisa-you-feel-like-saturday-lyrics-with-video/

http://www.bsckids.com/2011/05/michael-marisa-you-feel-like-saturday-music-video/

Wow! All this press coverage and links make it clear that the Michael and Marisa should stay. I'm going to go look them up and listen to them. Rixton is a top 40 band that could have anyone open for them and they chose Michael and Marisa. So impressive! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.189.208.170 (talk) 02:14, 23 September 2014 (UTC) — 71.189.208.170 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Michael and Marisa are one of the FEW talented young artists out there today. Their progression is both amazing and inspiring. In TODAY's pop culture we see all of the every day and run of the mill groups and solo artists following in what I feel a cookie-cutter progression with more placed on tabloid style coverage rather than talent and uplifting messages. WE need Michael and Marisa. PERIOD. D. Stefanelli — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.128.249.91 (talk) 15:34, 23 September 2014 (UTC) — 24.128.249.91 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


 * Keep - This strikes me as an anti-paid-editing action, I am sorry to say. Although the morass of sources above is difficult to parse THIS from the Boston Globe and THIS from Parents magazine should be more than sufficient to get these tween popsters over the GNG hump, particularly given our loose community standards for notability of musical groups. THIS from Popstar.online should count towards GNG. There is a whole lot of WP:IDONTLIKEIT at AfD sometimes; this should be a clear GNG keep. (PS The comments of the two IPs above me aren't helping — just back off.) Carrite (talk) 17:22, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment I don't think those qualify as WP:SIGCOV at all. I think that the subjects are where they were 5 years ago pretty much - they've done some covers, they've collaborated with some other artists and they've worked with some charities. But except for the supposed article in Billboard Magazine, nothing up there for a minute constitutes real, tangible coverage about them. Perhaps a case of WP:TOOSOON although I would have thought that they would "get there" from 2009 to 2012. And one article in Billboard does not make them notable. As to the involvement of the paid editing spammers, I read it as their agent (or whomever they are) having asked for their help. Hopefully they realize that was a really bad idea. On a separate note, perhaps it would be best if this article is deleted and re-created when and if true notability can be evidence beyond WP:GHITS, and by someone else that does not have a COI so we don't have an article that reads like a press release. As a final observation, the notability of YouTube-centric artists is commonly argued in the context of their views and subscribers, which sometimes works and sometimes doesn't but in my experience tends to be a good barometer for their true notability. Their YouTube channel has less thatn 8,000 subscribers and their videos seem to be largely covers of songs by other artists. That in my opinion works against the general notability argument. If you're essentially a cover band, it takes a LOT more to be notable because you have little to none original content that could conceivably chart or otherwise generate traction in the media. As of now, given what I've found out there my !vote to delete remains. § FreeRangeFrog croak 18:48, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
 * With the exception of the Boston Globe article, none of the sources provide significant coverage. Popstaronline.com in particular should not count towards WP:GNG, as the entire "article" is a two paragraph ad for a free music download. --Hirolovesswords (talk) 20:34, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.