Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Michal Maria Czartoryski


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Xymmax So let it be written   So let it be done  21:58, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Michal Maria Czartoryski

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The subject does not seem to be notable. I originally asked for a speedy deletion, but the template was removed by another user with a comment that "nobles are notable". I couldn't find a guideline though that all people of noble birth are inherently notable. And, since there have been millions of nobles throughout history, such a rule would make no sense. &mdash; Kpalion(talk) 08:20, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Poland-related deletion discussions.  —&mdash; Kpalion(talk) 11:55, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Clear Delete A Google search shows that Michal Maria Czartoryski is not notable, due to a lack of third-party references, and therefore information about him/her is unverifiable. I also agree with you about nobles not being inherently notable. That's an absolutely ridiculous argument. Anti  venin  09:05, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete providing no one comes up with notability evidence. I agree with Antivenin about the notability issue. Generally, notability has to be demonstrated via independent sources. For people, we have specific guidelines, at WP:BIO, and none of those guidelines say that a person is automatically notable just because he/she is born into a particular family...a view which is also stated in WP:NOTINHERITED. Granted, there are certain subjects that the community has deemed to have inherent or de facto notability, but being a noble is not listed as one of those subjects.  AK Radecki Speaketh  17:18, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Weak Delete I think there is agreement that the Polish Szlachta are generally lesser nobility, corresponding roughly to English Baronets, and are not automatically notable. (The WP article gives their number as one million, in a country of a population of about  thirty million when the rank was abolished in 1921--and many fewer during most of its history.  But his title is given as "Prince", would would make him part of the higher nobility. True, they too no longer had any legal status during his life. I think our current rule for higher nobility after they no longer had legal status is that they are not necessary notable, unlike when they did. Bugt has any serious effort been made to see if he was perhaps individually notable--has anyone looked for actual sources, per WP:BEFORE? DGG (talk) 20:21, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The article doesn't give us any hints whatsoever that he might be individually notable. The only article that links to this one is about his father, Roman Jacek Czartoryski, who is barely notable himself. No interwiki links. &mdash; Kpalion(talk) 21:02, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete Fails WP:BIO. I've done several searches for sources and have been unable to find anything to verify this noble's notability. Cunard (talk) 22:30, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment: I removed the speedy with the incorrect edit summary of "nobles are notable". Nobles aren't inherently notable, but since the article states that Michal Maria Czartoryski is a noble (assertion of notability), A7 (which requires that the article asserts no notability at all) does not apply. Prod or AfD would better in deleting these types of articles. Cunard (talk) 22:30, 4 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.