Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mickey Rooney's portrayal of I.Y. Yunioshi in Breakfast at Tiffany's


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. v/r - TP 03:23, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Mickey Rooney&
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Does not conform to the WP:Notability standards set by Wikipedia. I do not think that someone's portrayal of a minor character that lasts about a minute in the whole movie is appropriate for a full Wikipedia page. Anonywiki (talk) 21:15, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions.  — &mdash; alf.laylah.wa.laylah (talk) 21:20, 17 September 2011 (UTC)


 * strong keep &mdash; this is off-the-charts notable. look at this search if the panoply of references already in the article aren't already enough for you.  i don't know how many minutes he was on screen, but it's not relevant.  his role qua his role is widely discussed as a thing in itself, and is therefore notable. &mdash; alf.laylah.wa.laylah (talk) 21:22, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep. Well referenced, and too long to merge into Portrayal of East Asians in Hollywood. Pburka (talk) 21:44, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep per Notability standards being met in droves. It does not matter one whit that the character had little screen time.  What matters is the continued discussion and commentary in multiple reliable sources over a many years period. Per the sources available, the article merits further expansion, but definitely not deletion.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 22:10, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Merge to Breakfast at Tiffany's (film). As notorious as Rooney's portrayal of a Japanese man in the film has become, I'm not sure why the response to it doesn't belong in the article about the film; neither article is so long that a merger would be unreasonable. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 22:59, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Merge to Breakfast at Tiffany's (film). The article is less about Rooney's portrayal than modern reaction to it.  While the reaction is notable I strong think that this would be more effective in the film's article where it can be judged in context. -- Deadly&forall;ssassin  00:54, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
 * The problem with a merge to the film article is that Rooney's characterization is a trivial one-minute scene when compared to the film's overall story and comentary in sources. The portrayal being seen in a negative light by multiple sources is years after the fact and deals with the director's choice of Rooney as an Asian.  In the film article it would be a trivial sidenote, but as a seperate article, the topic is worthy of expansion through the multiple available sources.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 01:32, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep per arguments above, but rename to I.Y. Yunioshi. I saw the film for the first time a few years ago, and was shocked by this scene.  Sources provided prove that it's notable, but the title is excessively long and clunky.  Cullen 328   Let's discuss it  06:22, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree the title is clunky. Your suggestion is a term as used in the sources, and is thus a resonable search term. Nice choice.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 08:43, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I.Y. Yunioshi also appeared in the Truman Capote novella the film is based on. The character in the novel is not, as far as I know, controversial in any way. I would be reluctant to conflate the character with the controversy. The existing title, while verbose, is consistent with Portrayal of East Asians in Hollywood. Pburka (talk) 14:27, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
 * comment &mdash; i'm with Pburka on this one. it isn't the character that's notable, but rooney's portrayal of the character in the film.  thus, as lousy as it sounds, i think that the current name for the article is the correct one.  right now, a search on "I. Y. Yunioshi" leads to exactly what it ought to lead to, which is this article, the film, the portrayal of east asians, and lastly the story by capote.  perhaps a dab page is in order, but i don't think that the issue is pressing. &mdash; alf.laylah.wa.laylah (talk) 15:39, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
 * How about a less clunky Mickey Rooney as I.Y. Yunioshi?  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 22:29, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I think we can just do I.Y. Yunioshi. The article can be about the film character with a note in the footer about the novella having a character with the same name but in a completely different role (as a Japanese photographer). I think I saw in one of the sources that the film's Yunioshi was based on a non-Asian character from the novella but was changed. In short, all the coverage talks about the film's Yunioshi and not the novella's, so we don't have to disambiguate with "Mickey Rooney as" or with "(film character)". Erik (talk &#124; contribs) 16:14, 19 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Keep. Meets WP:GNG on all points. I believe the current title is appropriate. Steamroller Assault (talk) 17:28, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
 * How does it meet WP:GNG? At least one of the "citations" listed there is a link to a review of the film that happens to mention "racist" and mentions nothing about any protests. This is all it says: "For an overtly racist Orientalist representation in American film, see Mickey Rooney as Mr. Yunioshi in Breakfast at Tiffany’s (1961)." Another so-called citation was an article that had this in it: "Mickey Rooney's Mr. Yunioshi, Holly's landlord, was a cringe-inducing stereotype.", and those are just the first two I went to. Ironically when I saw the term "angry asian" I thought it was referring to the protestors. Protests occur all over the world for many different reasons, they don't all demand a Wikipedia page of their own. Typically only protests involving tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of people get Wikipedia pages. And how many people have gone on hunger strike protests in the world? It strikes me as being very Western-centric and propagated by a few people, which is what we don't want on Wikipedia.


 * So I don't understand how it fulfills the WP:GNG criteria, in particular the links to movie reviews and articles that mention the alleged racism are ridiculous links. There are people protesting all the time, people setting up groups on Facebook, people who climb trees to save the planet, they do not all deserve an individual Wikipedia entry. Maybe it could be listed in a page entitled something like "protests about American films" in addition to being merged with the main article.


 * And if the page is about the protests, shouldn't it be entitled something more like: "Protests over Mickey's Rooney's portrayal of I.Y. Yunioshi in Breakfast at Tiffany's"? We're not discussing all aspects of his performance, just the controversy over it. I also think the page is quite offensive to a lot of people, Mickey Rooney himself has been deeply hurt by the allegations. Anonywiki (talk) 23:25, 18 September 2011 (UTC)


 * CommentAnonywiki, you say " people who climb trees to save the planet, they do not all deserve an individual Wikipedia entry" yet we've had an article on Julia Butterfly Hill for nearly seven years.  Cullen 328  Let's discuss it  00:41, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
 * comment &mdash; (also to Anonywiki) whether or not it satisfies gng is related to the sources available, not to the sources in the article. admittedly a number of those are problematic and should be removed, but a simple google books search shows that there are many reliable sources which discuss rooney's portrayal at great length.  these, along with the multiple reliable sources in the article, are what shows that this satisfies gng. &mdash; alf.laylah.wa.laylah (talk) 00:48, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Indeed, WP:NRVE states "Notability requires only the existence of suitable independent, reliable sources, not their immediate citation." WP:Notability makes no demand that the available sources be immediately IN an article, only that the BE avaiulable.  As multiple sources have been offered, we have a meeting of the GNG, whether or not the improvable article has made use of them or not.  Schmidt,  MICHAEL Q. 05:34, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment towards User:Anonywiki: If there is a reliable source that indicates Mickey Rooney's response to his portrayal of this character, it would be an excellent addition to this article. Can you provide the source? This article could grow into a very interesting page showing how the portrayal of racial stereotypes have evolved over the years since this film was produced. Steamroller Assault (talk) 08:47, 19 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Merge to Breakfast at Tiffany's (film). Does not warrant it's own page. --Cox wasan (talk) 21:53, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep and truncate name to "I.Y. Yunioshi". --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 23:59, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment. More sources for info to develop this article: and . Also, seems to indicate that there is a featurette on the Breakfast at Tiffany's DVD that discusses this issue. Steamroller Assault (talk) 10:08, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep as there appears to be significant coverage about the portrayal. However, I would also be okay with making the content part of Breakfast at Tiffany's (film) if it was ever developed into a stronger article. The examples in this sub-article feel somewhat localized where I think that the portrayal itself could be explored more closely. After all, the portrayal is still tied to the film, released in a particular time of cinema. Erik (talk &#124; contribs) 15:41, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I also agree with Richard about truncating the name to I.Y. Yunioshi per WP:PRECISION. Judging from the coverage on the film article, director Blake Edwards supported having the character, so the truncation would be a way to cover the character in more than just how the actor (Rooney) played him. This is a good source to use to that end. Erik (talk &#124; contribs) 15:54, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep - Per Pburka and truncate per Richard Arthur Norton.  Mlpearc   powwow  22:21, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep Notability is met. Here is significant coverage from independent secondary source Breakfast at Tiffany’s at 50: We Need to Talk About Mr. Yunioshi, Movieline.com--Larp30 (talk) 23:01, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

References to consider

 * Keep – Per more sources listed above that establish notability of the topic, and reliable sources in the article. Northamerica1000 (talk) 03:30, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep and truncate title to I.Y. Yunioshi. The film character has received enough coverage to be considered notable. Unlikely confusion with the non-notable novel character can be dispelled with a sentence in the article. Lagrange613 (talk) 01:15, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.