Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Middle-earth wars and battles


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. I see the redirect and keep arguments, but the keep one does not present any specific independent sources and there are three redirect targets with no clear priority. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:56, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

Middle-earth wars and battles

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This is a summary of wars and battles that occur in Tolkien's fiction. In this, it is a violation of WP:INDISCRIMINATE. It is a duplicate of the plot summaries included in articles about those fiction works. It is also a duplicate of the many articles which cover those wars and battles. There would be a case for merge, but there are too many targets. It has relatively few citations, almost all of which are primary sources. It openly describes itself as "in-universe". It is a big piece of fancruft which should be deleted. Jack Upland (talk) 08:56, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 10:32, 16 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete Per WP:TNT. WP:ALLPLOT and written in an in-universe style, as if it were an encyclopedia in Middle-Earth itself.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 11:34, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fantasy-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 11:51, 16 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete Per WP:TNT. Alternatively, ship off to Wikia? ~ riley  ( talk  ) 11:53, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete - I'm sure there's commentary here and there about individual battles, but I don't think there'd be anything cohesive enough to make this a topic on its own. Any such commentary belongs in the original works (which are somehow some of the poorest articles I've ever seen for such a major work). TTN (talk) 13:14, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete This whole article is built around treating LotR as if it were a real work of history, not a fictional work. This multiplying of articles instead of inproving the articles on the works themselves probably explains why the articles on LotR are not up to the level of what we would expect. Well a secondary reason is probably in fans and not scholars dominating in this field. However there is much potential for good work to be done here, but having articles like this misguides and misdirects the work.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:13, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete As a Tolkien fan, I've actually read and used this article. But I have to agree that this isn't Wikipedia material.  It's Tolkien Gateway or some similar source material.  The relevant information is included in articles about the individual books themselves.  This topic lacks impact and importance in the real world, so it really shouldn't be here. Hog Farm (talk) 19:52, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete While Shippey may have argued that Tolkien was the author of the century, his fictional battles were not the battles of the century. &#8213; Susmuffin Talk 20:45, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete. Tolkiencruft with no evidence of real world analysis or such (fails GNG, LISTN, etc.). On pl wikipedia I am still fighting an uphill battle to merge such events into a compound list, sigh. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 05:58, 17 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete. Over 120 kilobytes of nothing but plot information, sourced only to the original books. J I P  &#124; Talk 11:17, 17 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep This article contains a lot of sourced information that is presented as a list, and it seems encyclopedic to my read. Per the reason provided for the deletion, I believe the first aspect of this per the policy "To provide encyclopedic value, data should be put in context with explanations referenced to independent sources" could be fulfilled by adding additional sources. Deletion is not necessary. --- FULBERT (talk) 18:27, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Strong Delete It beggars belief that amount of work that went into this article when there are bio articles, e.g. doctors that saved 10's of 1000's of life's and and don't have articles.  scope_creep Talk  09:42, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Redirect to History of Arda or Timeline of Arda. Goustien (talk) 18:08, 22 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Middle-Earth. This article is a bloated mess filled with nothing but primary sources and described from an in-universe point of view. Devonian Wombat (talk) 22:52, 22 December 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.