Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mihail Ilyich Surkov


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. Page was moved to Mikhail Ilyich Surkov during the discussion by a participant. (non-admin closure) BusterD (talk) 18:21, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Mihail Ilyich Surkov

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Another editor created this page, but while making redirects, I discovered that it has previously been deleted under the name Mikhail_Surkov. I think it's notable, but given the previous "delete" consensus, I'm re-listing to confirm notability. Slashme (talk) 08:44, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: Previous deletion discussion is at Articles_for_deletion/Mikhail_Surkov
 * Keep: This guy was claimed by the Soviets to be the top-scoring sniper of WWII. That alone is a sign of notability.  There are multiple sources repeating this claim.  --Slashme (talk) 08:46, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep. I would agree that a claim that he was World War II's top sniper, even if that claim is unsubstantiated, makes him notable. The existence of the claim (if not the man) appears to be referenced in reliable enough sources. The previous deletion seems to have been rather a poor decision. -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:13, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep. Clearly notable, even if the claims are exaggerated.--Dmol (talk) 09:37, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment. However, if kept it should be moved to Mikhail Ilyich Surkov, as that is the usual transliteration of the Cyrillic Михаил. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:35, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Agreed! --Slashme (talk) 13:44, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep - Published claims of being the top-killing sniper of WWII make this a slam dunk keep. Sources are showing. I have done some rudimentary cleanup of the piece for POV and form and have boldly moved the piece to Mikhail Ilyich Surkov, since cyrillic "X" is latin "KH" in both the Library of Congress and English transliteration systems. Carrite (talk) 16:39, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Good work! --Slashme (talk) 16:59, 18 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment - Hmmmmm, I just paid a visit to Russian WP and there is no listing for him. This sets off a warning buzzer in my head... For the record, the caption below the picture of Surkov says: "Sniper Mikhail Surkov, who exterminated 702 fascists." So if this is a hoax, it is a clever one. I also note that two of the footnotes were attributed to a publisher called Zenith, but from different cities. This is possible for a small publisher, of course, but also a red flag — pardon the pun. Carrite (talk) 16:47, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment - Okay, not a hoax. I found him redlinked at Russian Wikipedia HERE and there seems to be plenty of stuff on the net — although there is a dead link in the piece under discussion that needs to be culled out. Carrite (talk) 16:53, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, I don't quite understand what I did there - I'd found a book source, but it was snippet view, so I tried to build a search that should have given me the quotation from the book, but it now just seems to be getting a web result, with no book results. No matter, the other source gives the same basic info (see talk page) --Slashme (talk) 17:56, 18 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment - I'm writing this here to discuss it first, as it might be a major change to the article if "corrected"(its not only the highest score in the European conflict, but also in other parts of the war like North Africa and the Pacific) "total which would make him the most effective sniper of the European conflict." ? But was it really needed to change the whole article? Schutzephilip (talk) 20:13, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Russia-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 00:39, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions.  • Gene93k (talk) 00:40, 19 April 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure if the Pacific theater was counted; not immediately evident from the lists I glanced at on the fly and I unilaterally downgraded the claim. I find the phrasing "score" to be extremely offensive and got rid of that also. If the Japanese and American-Pacific totals are known and considered here and I've undercut the claim, feel free to change it back. Carrite (talk) 04:12, 19 April 2012 (UTC) Last edit: Carrite (talk) 04:20, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
 * "Score" may be offensive to some, but it is the actual term used, for both snipers and fighter pilots, and Wikipedia is not censored. The Bushranger One ping only 18:18, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.