Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mike Gravier


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. Stifle (talk) 08:28, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Mike Gravier

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

Non-notable minor college football coach, no substantive, independent articles about him. Fails WP:ATHLETE even on the broadest measure (his head coaching career was in NAIA, not at the "highest level of amateur sports"). Prod removed by creator stating "article has been improved and sources added," but the sources are still only from the school in question and not independent, and none establish his notability per WP:BIO or WP:ATHLETE. See prior AfDs at Articles for deletion/Walter J. West, Articles for deletion/Ward A. Wescott, Articles for deletion/William McCracken, Articles for deletion/Max Holm and Articles for deletion/J. J. Thiel.  Ravenswing  15:47, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep rather than repeat detailed response, please read my response at Articles for deletion/Kevin Haslam (football coach) which should apply here as well. Additionall points include reaching quarterfinal playoffs for the NAIA national championships in his first year of coaching, and qualifying for the national championships his last season.  His programs were marked by outstanding success on the field.  If you have questions, please ask!--Paul McDonald (talk) 16:49, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment: He did not, however, coach in the national championships, nor would that qualify someone for an article any more than being the coach of a Little League World Series team would, a post that would also arguably come with "outstanding success on the field."   Ravenswing  18:03, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Response yes, he did coach in the national championship tournament for two games in their first appearance and one game in the last appearance. And this is not little league.--Paul McDonald (talk) 19:07, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * He did not coach in the national championship GAME. As far as WP:ATHLETE holds, it is no different than Little League.    Ravenswing  20:04, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I never said it was the game, it was the tournament. The article is specific.  And you really expect us to believe that a football team of 12-year-olds (i.e. little league) could compete toe-to-toe with this group of college players?--Paul McDonald (talk) 20:20, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I think you are deliberately misreading RGT's comments. He never made such a claim, and it would be ridiculous. What matters here is notability, not the size of the players involved. Moreover, RGT didn't say that you said it was the game. The point is, he didn't coach in the championship game, apparently, and if he had, he might/would/could have been more notable than he is now (now, he is not notable). Such intentional obfuscation does not help your case. Drmies (talk) 20:48, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, arguing in good faith would be a good idea. This is getting a little bit raw.    Ravenswing  21:08, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I would be happy for everyone to make good faith arguments. Please clarify what you meant by "it is no different than Little League."  Further, I mean no deliberate misreading and don't like being called a liar (no one does).--Paul McDonald (talk) 21:29, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * After going into this on a dozen AfDs or more, do you genuinely need me to spell this stance out yet again? It's terribly simple.  WP:ATHLETE specifically and explicitly states that competitors who have played at the "highest level of amateur sports" are notable.  NAIA isn't at the highest level of amateur sports.  Therefore, as far as meeting WP:ATHLETE is concerned, there's no difference between NAIA, jucos, high schools or an 8-year-olds' T-ball league.  They are all equally non-notable.   Ravenswing  04:05, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not about me, it's about any other editor that would come along not familair with your stance. If you really want to discuss generally, then please go the the College Football Notability Essay like I've been asking you for some time now but you flatly refuse.--Paul McDonald (talk) 11:36, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Pretty much, yes. If you'd like to know why, I'll be happy to discuss that on a talk page.    Ravenswing  15:03, 11 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete--in agreement with RGT, and for the same reason as Kevin Haslam, below. Drmies (talk) 20:07, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete Per nom. We don't need to go to the CFB/N talk page in order to know that it is an essay that doesn't reflect community standards for inclusion. Protonk (talk) 16:48, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions.   --  Fabrictramp  |  talk to me  23:30, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. -Djsasso (talk) 15:45, 14 October 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.