Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mikhail Abyzov


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus to delete, default to keep. The argument about there not being no English sources seems to be moot after Phil Bridger's post.  Sandstein  18:57, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Mikhail Abyzov

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

I suspect this is not notable; speedy was denied because admin couldn't read russian refs (neither can I); admin advised an AfD  Chzz  ►  06:22, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete Being a Manager of an unreferiable Russsian company is notable. If notability can be established in Russian, then the appropriate wiki may be used. However, I doubt it. Rotovia (talk) 06:33, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment I am the admin who refused the speedy deletion. Notability can be established using sources in other languages, provided they are reliable sources. The problem is that I can't tell if the sources are reliable or not. -- Mattinbgn\talk 09:07, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Very weak keep, the E4 is really a big company (the biggest engineering company they claim on their site), but the guy is not the President he is just the Chairman of the board. The company is a holding that means that they have bought a few Soviet time companies that are more or less self-govern, thus, they are much less prominent then their subsidiaries. The guy was indeed proclaimed "The best young manager of Russia" in some year, they have references, it may be seen as a claim to notability. But on the other hand we do not have an article about this E4 group nor about their President. It is weird to have an article about the chairman of the board. The article is badly written as a resume or commercial advertisement. In other words I don't see the reasons to delete the article nor any convincing reasons to protest the deletion. Alex Bakharev (talk) 09:34, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Russia-related deletion discussions.   —TravellingCarithe Busy Bee 19:09, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Very weak keep E4 big company JukoFF (talk) 23:44, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete - non-notable businessman; concentrate instead on creating a decent (or indeed, any) article on E4 itself. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  17:12, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, TravellingCarithe Busy Bee 18:06, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 *  Weak Delete Neutral If the references have more documented instances of notability, the article certainly does not reflect it. If they exist and no one who speaks Russian cares to add them, then it is unlikely the article would have survived a PROD. Jclemens (talk) 18:14, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete. If he were truly notable, there'd be English language references; what is notable in Russia may not be notable elsewhere. Renee (talk) 18:25, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. I don't know whether or not the subject is notable in Russia, but I do know that if he is notable in Russia he is notable enough for English Wikipedia. The "English" in "English Wikipedia" simply means that the articles are written in English, not that there are only articles about English speaking subjects. Phil Bridger (talk) 21:01, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete The article reads like a vanity piece. Maybe create an article on this E4 group and add a small section that doesn't look like a resumé listing the top-level employees instead? Qaddosh| contribstalk 18:41, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Strong keep. There is plenty of media coverage in English and in Russian – far more than is need to establish notability. Just to pick one example this one lists the subject as one of Russia's most powerful oligarchs. I don't really understand the comment above about him being only the chairman – the chairman of a company can be just as powerful and notable as a president. As far as I am aware Roman Abramovich has been chairman rather than president of most of companies that he has been invloved with. With the way the energy market is going Mikhail Abyzov is one of the most powerful people in the world. Not to have an article on him would simply make Wikipedia look ridiculous. Phil Bridger (talk) 11:47, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It sounds like this article really needs someone to invest a bit of time in it. Given any evidence in that direction, I'll be happy to change my position to keep. Jclemens (talk) 17:54, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree that someone should spend some time on the article, and I would be happy to do so when I have that time, but not with a gun held to my head. The sources I linked to above clearly establish notability of the subject so there is no reason to delete just because it takes much more time for a constructive editor to expand an article than for a destructive editor to call for deletion. If you're really that keen on time being spent on this why not do it yourself using the sources I have shown? Phil Bridger (talk) 18:37, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * If I had time, interest, or subject knowledge, I would indeed. My apologies if that came across as any sort of a threat, or an admonition for you yourself to be WP:BOLD--I really did mean 'someone,' not just you. Jclemens (talk) 19:21, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Delete being a leader of a non notable organization does not make you notable. I would possibly support a merge into an article on E4 if its notability can be established firmly. --Ave Caesar (talk) 19:16, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. What makes him notable isn't "being a leader of a non notable organization". Not yet having a Wikipedia article doesn't make a subject non-notable, so you can't say it's a non-notable organisation, and anyway notability of Mikhail Abyzov is substantiated by the existence of substantial coverage by reliable sources, which I have demonstrated above. If you actually look at the sources I have presented you will see that the subject's notability isn't just based on his present position, but on his senior positions in other organisations going back for 15 years, and his ownership of substantial parts of many energy corporations in Russia and other former Soviet nations. He only very recently became chairman of E4 so that is only a small part of his notability. This is one of the people whose decisions make world fuel prices go up or down. Surely that makes him more notable than a band whose single got to number 34 in the charts or a footballer who once came on as a substitute in a League 2 match? Phil Bridger (talk) 21:26, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.