Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Million Years Ago (song)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. Michig (talk) 09:56, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

Million Years Ago (song)

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Fails WP:NSONGS, without any independent third party notability its just a bunch of chart information which are easily available at Adele discography. — Indian: BIO  [ ChitChat ] 09:36, 24 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete - Quite clearly not notable at all. No prose. All very well people saying that not every article needs to be GA standard in terms of prose, but at the same time, there actually needs to be something to read. If people feel that passionately, be bold and improve it yourself.  — Calvin999  11:22, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep, of course. The song is notable. It has charted in at least a dozen countries. Yes, the article needs to be expanded, but that is not a reason to delete it. Let's keep the article so people can expand it over time. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 16:50, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * There's no such thing as a song being notable. The article needs to be notable. The article being so short with next to no valuable or interesting prose is a reason to list it for deletion. No one will expand this over time. — Calvin999  17:32, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Huh? Yes, there is such a thing as a song being notable. This song is notable, and should therefore have a Wikipedia article. Just because the article is short doesn't mean it can't be kept and expanded, nor is there a reason to assume that no one will ever be willing to make improvements. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 17:37, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Please elucidate upon how this song is notable, using the notability guidelines. — Calvin999  17:41, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Sure. I'm sure you are familiar with Notability_(music), which says songs are notable if they "have been the subject of multiple, non-trivial published works whose sources are independent of the artist and label". Yes, it also says, "coverage of a song in the context of an album review does not establish notability", but this is not a problem for "Million Years Ago":


 * http://www.techtimes.com/articles/117252/20151218/adele-accused-of-plagiarism-on-million-years-ago-youtube-video-compares-the-songs-video.htm
 * http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3350562/Is-Adele-s-Million-Years-Ago-actually-1985-Plagiarism-row-fans-Kurdish-Turkish-singer-claim-chart-topper-s-track-rip-one-songs.html
 * http://www.telegraph.co.uk/music/news/did-adele-really-copy-kurdish-singer-ahmet-kaya-with-million-yea/
 * http://mic.com/articles/130063/did-adele-plagiarize-on-new-song-million-years-ago-some-kurdish-listeners-believe-it#.GAtlVG1G6
 * http://www.timeslive.co.za/entertainment/2015/12/07/Turks-accuse-Adele-of-stealing-Million-Years-Ago
 * http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/bizarre/celebs/adele/6791083/Has-Adele-stolen-Million-Years-Ago-from-a-Turkish-tune.html
 * http://www.hngn.com/articles/158499/20151209/adele-accused-stealing-million-years-ago-kurdish-turkish-singer.htm
 * http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/adele-accused-of-stealing-kurdish-singers-1985-song-for-her-new-album-25-a6764041.html
 * http://www.digitalspy.com/music/news/a776557/adele-hit-by-plagiarism-claims-over-her-million-years-ago-track/
 * http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/adele-vs-ahmet-kaya-star-could-end-court-over-kurdish-million-years-ago-plagiarism-row-1532560
 * http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/adele-accused-plagiarism-over-song-6973670
 * http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/pop/6777076/adele-perform-million-years-ago-today-show
 * http://www.today.com/video/adele-serenades-today-with-new-song-million-years-ago-574007875928
 * http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/watch-adele-perform-smoky-25-ballad-million-years-ago-20151125
 * http://pitchfork.com/news/62269-adele-performs-million-years-ago-on-today/
 * http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/adele-belts-new-song-million-years-ago-on-today-show-watch-now-w158438


 * Yes, I realize some of these sources are repetitive, but publications around the world have discussed this song. Here are some other sources that could be used:
 * http://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2015/nov/19/adele-what-shes-singing-about-on-25
 * http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/15/arts/music/adele-25-album-interview.html?_r=0
 * http://time.com/4155801/adele-story/
 * http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/11/adele-25-review-slow-introspective-intensely-human/416811/
 * http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/adele-inside-her-private-life-and-triumphant-return-20151103


 * Keep in mind the song has charted in multiple nations. Between the composition details, chart success, and live performances, there is certainly enough to justify an article. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 17:53, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * And so why are these not in the article? They aren't much use otherwise. Catch my drift? Charting does not automatically invoke notability, by the way. It's not as if the song hit number-one or is certified, either. Instead of arguing and pasting a load of URLs here, why don't you be WP:BOLD and get on with trying to save this article and improve it right now? Otherwise, this article will be deleted. You would earn my respect if you actually actioned what you are saying instead of just talking about it. — Calvin999  17:56, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Why aren't the sources in the article? Because someone hasn't added them yet. That doesn't mean the song is non-notable and so the article should be deleted, sorry. I understand that charting doesn't automatically mean notability, hence why I posted a number of articles above. And no offense, but I don't edit Wikipedia for your respect. I may get around to expanding this article, but I am making no promises at this time. Again, just because I am not willing to stop everything and expand this article per your demand does not mean this song is not notable and worthy of a Wikipedia article. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 18:00, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * And probably never would, at least not all of them. You keep saying it's notable and should stay, but not willing to do something about it and commit to actually improving it. In the time :that we have been going back and forth, you could have considerably expanded it by now. — Calvin999  18:02, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * You are right. But my time has instead been wasted defending the deletion of a notable song. It seems you are punishing me and the article for not being willing to personally expand it at this very moment. Wikipedia is a longterm project, a work in progress. There are major improvements that can be made to this article. I hope other editors will agree that the song is notable and the article should be kept. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 18:08, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, the article is nominated for deletion right now, and there's no time like the present to save it from being deleted, or least try to. AfD is not a long term process. The notability lies in the sourcing. At the moment, there is no notability. — Calvin999  18:10, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * My thoughts exactly. AB you create stub class articles and then cry foul when someone redirects and nominates for deletion. Its getting annoying now, if you are so bothered about articles, why can't you just expand them in your sandbox and then move them into mainspace? That's what I always do and god forbid none of which I created have ever been nominated. — Indian: BIO  [ ChitChat</b> ] 20:11, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Please do not mischaracterize me. I did not create this stub. I created the original redirect. I am not crying foul. I am simply expressing my opinion which is that this song is notable and worthy of its own Wikipedia article. Nothing more. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 20:27, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * <small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions.   Musa Talk  ☻ 17:21, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * <small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions.   Musa Talk  ☻ 17:21, 24 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete only one source gives any quality amount independent of coverage, and charts (or lack thereof) are NOT an automatic indicator notability. One good source alone simply isn't enough to warrant an article. <b style="color:#454545">Snuggums</b> (<b style="color:#454545">talk</b> / <b style="color:#454545">edits</b>) 17:54, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * As evidenced above, there are plenty of sources to integrate into the article. And no one has said the song is notable only because of its charting success. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 18:05, 24 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Keep. Easily meets both WP:GNG and WP:NSONGS. Charting in 13 countries thus far; dozens of full articles on the song itself (including full articles in non-English publications). Here is just a sample of the voluminous coverage the song has received thus far (I'm hatting it so it doesn't overwhelm this page):


 * Full articles
 * http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/pop-shop/6770327/adele-million-years-ago-hometown-glory-bbc-video
 * http://www.digitaljournal.com/a-and-e/music/review-adele-divine-on-million-years-ago-live-performance-on-today/article/450706
 * http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/watch-adele-perform-smoky-25-ballad-million-years-ago-20151125
 * http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/adele-belts-new-song-million-years-ago-on-today-show-watch-now-w158438
 * http://www.elle.com/culture/celebrities/news/a32128/adele-today-show/


 * More full articles -- so-called "plagiarism" and similarities
 * http://metro.co.uk/2015/12/08/adele-accused-of-copying-kurdish-singer-ahmet-kayas-song-acilara-tutunmak-5551059/
 * http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/6780134/Has-Adele-copied-classic-Dusty-Springfield-track-on-her-new-album.html
 * http://www.lefigaro.fr/musique/2015/12/02/03006-20151202ARTFIG00167--million-years-ago-d-adele-hommage-ou-pillage-a-aznavour.php
 * http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/bizarre/celebs/adele/6791083/Has-Adele-stolen-Million-Years-Ago-from-a-Turkish-tune.html
 * http://www.telegraph.co.uk/music/news/did-adele-really-copy-kurdish-singer-ahmet-kaya-with-million-yea/
 * http://mic.com/articles/130063/did-adele-plagiarize-on-new-song-million-years-ago-some-kurdish-listeners-believe-it
 * http://www.techtimes.com/articles/117252/20151218/adele-accused-of-plagiarism-on-million-years-ago-youtube-video-compares-the-songs-video.htm
 * http://www.dailysabah.com/music/2016/01/09/turkish-musical-authority-claims-adeles-song-technically-similar-to-ahmet-kayas
 * http://www.dailysabah.com/music/2015/12/06/did-adele-steal-million-years-ago-from-kurdish-singer-ahmet-kaya
 * http://www.todayszaman.com/life_technical-similarities-between-kaya-and-adele-songs-are-enough-to-sue_409127.html
 * http://www.business-standard.com/article/news-ians/adele-accused-of-copying-turkish-singer-s-track-115120900585_1.html
 * http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2015/12/15/adele-battles-plagiarism-accusations-over-her-track-million-years-ago/
 * http://www.todayszaman.com/anasayfa_kayas-arranger-claims-adele-copied-refrain-of-well-known-song_406943.html
 * http://www.arabnews.com/offbeat/news/846971
 * http://www.antena3.com/celebrities/famosos-pop/shakira-acusa-adele-plagio-cancion-million-years-ago_2015121500301.html
 * http://www.eluniversal.com.co/farandula/gente-y-tv/shakira-acusa-de-plagio-adele-por-una-cancion-de-su-mas-reciente-album-213892
 * http://www.latina.com/entertainment/buzz/adele-shakira-plagarism-song
 * http://www.eska.pl/hotplota/news/adele-million-years-ago-nowa-piosenka-adele-to-kolejny-plagiat-to-powoli-zaczyna-byc-nudne/n/90473


 * Significant information
 * http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/nov/15/adele-25-new-album-interview
 * http://time.com/4155801/adele-story/
 * http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/adele-inside-her-private-life-and-triumphant-return-20151103
 * http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/15/arts/music/adele-25-album-interview.html
 * http://www.mtv.com/news/2511025/adele-live-in-new-york-city/
 * http://www.people.com/article/adele-stories-behind-songs-25
 * http://www.ew.com/article/2015/11/20/adele-joes-pub-nyc-best-moments
 * https://i-d.vice.com/en_gb/article/adele-exclusive-full-cover-story-i-d


 * Cogent discussion within album reviews
 * http://www.clashmusic.com/reviews/adele-%E2%80%9825%E2%80%99-0
 * http://www.star-telegram.com/entertainment/arts-culture/article45348795.html
 * http://harvardpolitics.com/culture/adeles-25-track-track/
 * http://www.telegram.com/article/20151231/ENTERTAINMENTLIFE/151239945
 * http://www.rollingstone.com/music/albumreviews/adele-25-20151124
 * http://www.billboard.com/articles/review/6769956/adele-25-album-review
 * http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/11/adele-25-review-slow-introspective-intensely-human/416811/
 * http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/nov/19/adele-25-album-review
 * http://www.salon.com/2015/11/20/review_adeles_25_lives_up_to_all_of_its_expectations/
 * http://triblive.com/aande/music/9512597-74/adele-green-music (Associated Press)
 * http://music.mxdwn.com/2015/11/25/reviews/adele-25/
 * http://www.dailytexanonline.com/2015/11/23/adele-sticks-to-formula-in-newest-release-25
 * http://www.southbendtribune.com/entertainment/inthebend/entertainmentnews/album-review-it-s-d-j-vu-for-adele-on/article_ad2499d4-1feb-5cf6-976f-fbe286568010.html
 * http://www.theartsdesk.com/new-music/cd-adele-25
 * http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/life/with-album-adele-is-back-in-all-her-glory/article_4df2d6f1-af38-53d5-ac1d-346abaeb1781.html
 * http://lasvegasweekly.com/ae/music/2015/nov/24/adeles-latest-songs-feel-worthy-of-her-massive-voi/


 * Charts
 * http://www.billboard.com/song/adele/6778452/million-years-ago
 * http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/6785547/adele-hello-no-1-twitter-top-tracks
 * http://www.officialcharts.com/chart-news/justin-bieber-and-adele-continue-tussle-for-singles-number-1__12375/
 * http://headlineplanet.com/home/2015/12/01/adeles-all-i-ask-love-in-the-dark-others-debut-on-bubbling-under-hot-100/
 * http://www.noise11.com/news/music-news-aria-singles-hello-is-no-1-again-20151128

-- Softlavender (talk) 19:51, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * But the sources are not in the article at present. You can't presume notability based on what could be added. Also, charting does not automatically mean it is notable.  — <b style="color:#595454">Calvin999</b>  21:41, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * See below. And again, no one is suggesting that charting alone is enough to establish notability. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 22:08, 24 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Keep. Sources provided show clear indication meets WP:GNG. Blethering  Scot  20:30, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * But the sources are not in the article at present. You can't presume notability based on what could be added. — <b style="color:#595454">Calvin999</b>  21:41, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Actually, per WP:AfD, "If you find that adequate sources do appear to exist, the fact that they are not yet present in the article is not a proper basis for a nomination." --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 22:06, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * And the point of posting this when I nominated it prior to you finding sources is? My point still stands, even if you were to add these, that's not a guarantee that the article will suddenly become notable. And as you're not willing to add them anytime soon. — <b style="color:#595454">Calvin999</b>  22:20, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * What do you mean the article needs to be notable? We are determining whether or not the song is notable. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 22:22, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * If you haven't got enough third party content to attribute to the song, then the article is not notable. — <b style="color:#595454">Calvin999</b>  22:23, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * , inclusion on Wikipedia is based on notability, not on what the current state of the Wikipedia article is. You misunderstand WP:AfD and the deletion process. Softlavender (talk) 22:36, 24 January 2016 (UTC); edited 22:42, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
 * No I don't. It's not notable. End of. — <b style="color:#595454">Calvin999</b>  22:57, 24 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Keep, clearly. This song far exceeds the requirements of WP:GNG, as evidenced by the long list of news articles about this song linked above. – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:08, 25 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Strong keep per above arguments by, , and . --MaranoFan (talk) 09:32, 25 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Keep - I think there's a strong argument for notability between the sources presented, charting in so many different countries, and nationwide televised performances of the song. Sergecross73   msg me  19:40, 25 January 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.