Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Millstone Academy


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Millstone, New Jersey. Spartaz Humbug! 09:42, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

Millstone Academy

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I have been unable to verify the existence of an academy by this name, and the sources used in the article don't even provide a name for it. When did it open? When did it close? Is it still open? What age range did/does it cater for? This is very basic stuff and this is a complete failure of WP:V. There's no chance of a redirect or a merge because we don't even know the name of this academy. It's not even worth moving to a draft without a verifiable name. Exemplo347 (talk) 14:13, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Education-related deletion discussions. Exemplo347 (talk) 14:15, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. Exemplo347 (talk) 14:15, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New Jersey-related deletion discussions. Exemplo347 (talk) 14:15, 3 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Delete. Even in the two sources given, the subject wasn't even notable enough to be given a name. One refers to "a two-storey building, known as the academy", and the other mentions "an academy at Millstone, Somerset County". Brad  v  14:25, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete I am seeing that most often the phrase "an academy at/in Millstone, New Jersey" is used often in one-sentence content that says someone attended or was on the faculty of the school. Which, along with one instance of Millstone Academy, is used for the one person linked to the article. But, I am not finding but a couple of instances of Millstone Academy and one instance of Academy at Millstone (which could have been a capitalization typo based upon all the other uses of "an academy at/in Millstone"). Since I am not finding information to build more content and there is only one person linked to the article, I vote to delete (over an earlier proposition I made to merge into the history section of Millstone, New Jersey.)–CaroleHenson (talk) 17:44, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete - the two sentences in this article provide little information beyond saying that the Millstone Academy was a school in New Jersey. Vorbee (talk) 18:06, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete Fails WP:GEOFEAT and WP:GNG nothing found in a before search. Dom from Paris (talk) 19:16, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete I am perhaps somewhat restricted by not having access to newspapers.com but I do know that some of those who have already commented do have access. I can't find any indication that this institution, whatever its name may have been, satisfies GNG based on sources to which I do have access. Perhaps just one of the many small, privately-run schools that proliferated at the time and survived often for no longer than the life of its founder? - Sitush (talk) 14:01, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Delete As per the nom, it's unclear - from the single source - if there was actually a school named Millstone Academy. Chetsford (talk) 23:24, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Retarget to Millstone Historic District Retarget to Millstone, New Jersey, the building is now known as Millstone Borough Hall. It was once the school house.  "The intellectual life of the community was not neglected as Millstone began the new century. A co-educational public school called the Academy opened in 1814 in a building next to the church. During the Civil War, the public school moved to what is now Borough Hall, where classes continued until about 1940. Starting in 1826 a Classical School for the study of Latin was held at the home of Dominie Zabriskie. Joseph P Bradlee, one of the early teachers at the Classical School, went on to become a United States Supreme Court Justice. Members of the Congregation of the Reformed Church at Millstone formed the Millstone Lecture Room Association in 1858. Lectures, readings, debates, and concerts were held in the old school building by the church." Point is, the district covers the important places associated with the schools like the Hall and the place next to the Reformed Church, which may or may not be there anymore.   AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 13:27, 5 June 2018 (UTC) updated 15:58, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Alternatively, the education section could be beefed up with the related paragraph in Millstone, New Jersey. AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 14:11, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I think the redirect would be a good idea. It does appear, according to your text, that the Millstone Academy is not where Joseph Bradlee (Bradley? Sources differ on spelling) taught - he taught at the Classical School in a different building. Exemplo347 (talk) 14:51, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
 * From what I can gather from this source the Borough Hall was built in 1860 as a schoolhouse and was not known as the Academy but Millstone Borough Schoolhouse. So I think it would be incorrect to say that the Academy is now known as Millstone Borough Hall as there are no sources to attest to it ever having been called The Academy. All we can say is that there was a building that was used as a shcool under the name The Academy between 1814 and circa 1836. We don't know if the school continued to be called The Academy after Bradley was the principal or teacher at another school called the Classical School depending on the source. We are not faced with some very reliable sources I think. Dom from Paris (talk) 15:01, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Yep, this is the problem when someone cobbles together an article from a bunch of single sentence, passing mentions that may or may not be about the same place - leaving others to clean up their steaming deposit. From a quick look, I found 3 places called Millstone in New Jersey and it's not inconceivable that more than one of these places had a school. Exemplo347 (talk) 15:11, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I do not agree with the redirect because the article deals with an historic district of existing buildings. The source says that it was opened in 1814 in a building next to the church, but the church listed in the historic district was built in 1828. Was the church that it was next to in the historic district or elsewhere? Over and above that the definition of an Historic districts in the United States "a geographically definable area, urban or rural, possessing a significant concentration, linkage, or continuity of sites, buildings, structures, or objects united by past events or aesthetically by plan or physical development. A district may also comprise individual elements separated geographically but linked by association or history". I don't agree that the district covers demolished buildings especially when we are not sure exactly where they were situated. Dom from Paris (talk) 15:26, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Good point, well made. A redirect from a WP:SYNTH title of something that we don't know the name of is slightly tenuous anyway. Exemplo347 (talk) 15:31, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
 * There are multiple books that describe Bradley as associated with Millstone Academy so that name has some relevance, but yes, I agree it could go into the history section or the education section of Millstone. If the concern is about the Millstone Borough Schoolhouse, that's covered by historic district, and the Reformed Church is covered in the historic district article. That the original "Academy" building is next door to that church indicates the site in the same district. It doesn't seem like SYNTH to me, but if you want to play it safe you can just expand the education section or history section for the town to include this. I'm not sure why this wouldn't be thought of as a reliable source. Perhaps somewhat primary, as It's published by the town; you'd think they would know their own history of what buildings are there. AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 16:05, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Here's a link for the classical schools in Hillsborough/Millstone. It discusses Zabriskie's house used as a Latin school in a paragraph.  The paragraph after that talks about a Millstone classical school conducted by John Cornell and continued by Bradley (supreme court guy). Then there's a third classical school that went from 1870 to 1876.   So this would be good stuff for the early educational history of the town.  AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 16:17, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I think we can agree that we're discussing potential content for another article, not this one, so this AfD might not be the place for it. I'd hate for someone to come along, skim-read and then !vote in a misguided slapdash fashion. Exemplo347 (talk) 16:28, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, but I don't think any of these "classical schools" can be described in more than a small paragraph, which can easily be merged into the sections of other articles. AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 22:36, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
 * The same source as the classical schools a few pages before (Everts & Peck, 1881) confirms an academy, established in 1814 from the lot from Daniel Disborough, two-story house, with Abram Montfort the original teacher, and Mr. Wallbridge from 1821-1828. In 1860 it moves to the new location north of town, (which is strongly likely to be Millstone Borough Schoolhouse as that was established in 1860), and indicates the former school lot which was "in the rear of the church", was bought by the trustees representing members of the church. The 1814 academy mentions teachers William Lytle (1832-1833), Mr. Kingsley, Stephen H. Rowan, James S. Taylor, Mr. Pillsbury.  The school at Dominie Zabriskie's place was for teaching Latin and ran in 1826-1827.  The classical school (not clear if the same as Zabriskie) lists John Cornell (1828-1835), Mr. Addis, Joseph P. Bradley, and William I. Thompson. Most of the biographies for Bradley have him briefly teaching at an academy in Millstone after graduating from Rutgers in 1836 but before enrolling in law school.  Some sources called him a principal at Millstone Academy   Well, after all that, I still think the education section would be the best retarget for academy.  AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 05:17, 6 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Keep. High schoos are usually kept at AfD, and academy in this context is probably a high school. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 03:17, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
 * There's no evidence it was a high school. The only students mentioned are "smaller children", see here. Brad  v  04:07, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Here is another source taken from the page about Millstone Rutgers Law Journal, Volume 33, Issue 2, Rutgers School of Law, Camden. Accessed June 4, 2018. "Abraham O. Zabriskie was born on June 10, 1807 in Greenbush, near Albany, New York. At age four, he moved with his family to Millstone, Somerset County, New Jersey where he received a thorough education at the Millstone Academy and under the tutelage of his father, a pastor." It was a town that had between 40 and 50 dwellings so very unlikely to have had a high school as such and more likely to have had a small primary school. It is not because it is called an academy that it is "probably" a high school. Dom from Paris (talk) 04:38, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Nice !vote there . You didn't even read the rationale, did you? Exemplo347 (talk) 05:10, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
 * The Everts & Peck, 1881 source is the one that mentions the "smaller children" occupying the second floor while the lower floor was a "schoolroom proper". AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 05:22, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Go ahead & add your information to the other article before we get swamped with more skim-reading !voters and we get stuck with this article. People are going to assume that you want your info in this article - if you do, then be clear, if you don't, then be clear too, because it's becoming a bit confusing and new !voters aren't going to bother to read through the discussion properly. Exemplo347 (talk) 05:30, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅ Added with the references provided to the Millstone education section, and changing my vote to redirect to there. AngusWOOF  ( bark  •  sniff ) 15:58, 6 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Redirect to Millstone, New Jersey Thanks to the digging by, we now know that school existed, what its name was, when it existed and where it's located, which addresses all of the pertinent issues raised in the nomination and those delete voters who have not taken this added context into account. While the school might not (now) merit a standalone article, a redirect to the section where AngusWOOF added details about the school would be appropriate. Alansohn (talk) 16:08, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Redirect per above. We can be sure that this was a real school but there is not much in the way of notability for a seperate article. I think merging all the info to Millstone, New Jersey is the way to go. ~ EDDY  ( talk / contribs ) ~ 19:10, 6 June 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.