Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mire Hagi Farah Mohamed (2nd nomination)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Consensus is we have verification of role that meets N:POL. Sourcing to improve the article can be found after AfD Star   Mississippi  01:46, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Mire Hagi Farah Mohamed
AfDs for this article:


 * – ( View AfD View log | edits since nomination)

No references on the page for many years. I have no reason to believe it isn't true, but I also don't think we can have pages without references. I don't find anything which meets the GNG, which one might expect if he was a national politician in the government. JMWt (talk) 17:08, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Another thought: we might have an issue of spelling in English (or Somali) which may be affecting the sources that can be found. JMWt (talk) 17:19, 22 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politicians, Politics, Africa,  and Somalia. JMWt (talk) 17:08, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep: Somali biographies are notoriously difficult to find sources for, as access to the Internet in that country is practically nonexistent; it is also difficult as there may be different combinations of names that refer to a single subject. Cabinet ministers are generally considered to be notable via WP:NPOL, especially a high-ranking minister like finance; that said, I was not able to quickly find a source confirming this. However, I was able to find a source which confirms that he was a member of parliament in the 2000s, thu sdefinitively passing WP:NPOL. Curbon7 (talk) 19:26, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Mm. I agree generally, however with little information that we can verify, I'm not sure how we write the page. JMWt (talk) 20:05, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Re-iterating my keep !vote, I have hid the uncited extraneous biographical information and leaving only his uncited DoB-DoD, referenced service in the Somali Parliament, referenced district commissioner tenure and action he did in that office, and uncited tenure as minister of finance. This is very much an NPOL test-case, as this subject was alive recently enough that print sources likely exist, but due to the country that is involved, these print sources have not yet been digitized. Most importantly, this means there is room for expansion, as proven by the snippet I added of his tenure as district commissioner. Curbon7 (talk) 22:21, 7 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Keep: Clearly passes WP:NPOL as "He served as Minister of State for Fishing and Sea resources." and "became a member of the transitional government's parliament and cabinet, and he was the Finance Minister in Somalia's federal government." ​​​​​​​𝐋𝐨𝐫𝐝𝐕𝐨𝐥𝐝𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐭𝟕𝟐𝟖🧙‍♂️Let's Talk ! 15:54, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment: Does nominator done WP:BEFORE, before nominating this to AfD. ​​​​​​​𝐋𝐨𝐫𝐝𝐕𝐨𝐥𝐝𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐭𝟕𝟐𝟖🧙‍♂️Let's Talk !  15:54, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Are you offering references which show any of the things you just asserted? JMWt (talk) 17:39, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Eddie891 Talk Work 21:03, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete fails GNG and currently basic verifiability with its existence. NPOL is not clearly met as the claimed positions appear appointed. Articles have to demonstrate meeting Wikipedia's notability guidelines; if they can't, they shouldn't be here. Someone has to put in the work to present sources, not just leave unreferenced content indefinitely because it's hard to do so. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs  talk 16:24, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
 * NPOL doesn't say that the person should be elected for passing it. ​​​​​​​𝐋𝐨𝐫𝐝𝐕𝐨𝐥𝐝𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐭𝟕𝟐𝟖🧙‍♂️Let's Talk ! 08:56, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete could not find a single source or reference and the claims in the article about the subject  cannot be verified clearly fails Verifiability.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 19:10, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment - working to verify. Bearian (talk) 19:11, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Relisting comment: Final relist to get more clear consensus Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Shawn Teller (talk) 01:50, 8 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Weak delete - I found a single reliable source, which isn't normally sufficient for WP:SIGCOV to prove he passes WP:NPOL. Bearian (talk) 20:05, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Comment: Once more, service in a parliament, even if appointed, passes WP:NPOL. This is cited. Also cited is a previous position he's held and an action he did in that position. This is typically more than enough for a keep on basis, as his holding of high-ranking NPOL-conferring positions means WP:OFFLINE sources are expected. Due to the fact that this is Somalia, a country where roughly 2% of the population has consistent access to the internet and only around 40% is even literate, this is leaning heavily into WP:SYSTEMIC. Curbon7 (talk) 19:18, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
 * For further clarification, as far as I'm aware, a modern NPOL-passing politician has never been deleted at AfD; we presume that there is a near-certain chance that offline sources are written about these figures, even if we don't have direct online access to these sources, due to their impact on society by virtue of holding office; this is kind of the point of why it's an alternative to GNG. Curbon7 (talk) 06:12, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Keep I sense that it has been verified that the subject did serve in the Transitional Federal Parliament of Somalia and would therefore pass WP:NPOL. Appointed officials are equivalent to an elected official, what matters is that the individual served in an "international, national, or (for countries with federal or similar systems of government) state/province–wide office," --Enos733 (talk) 06:37, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Clarifying - there are sources that verify service in the Somali Parliament meaning the subject does pass WP:NPOL - Enos733 (talk) 03:35, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment: There are strong arguments for both keeping and deleting. On one hand, there does appear to be some inherent claim to notability. But on the other hand, WP:RS coverage might not meet the WP:SIGCOV threshold. Shawn Teller (talk) 01:15, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * WP:NPOL states that there is a presumption of notability for "international, national, or (for countries with federal or similar systems of government) state/province–wide office." For national legislators, there would be official records of time in service, votes taken, and, quite likely, official speeches and there is likely media coverage of any campaign or time in office. As a community, we've accepted official records as sufficient to verify meeting the SNG, and those official sources could be used to expand the article. Curbon7 describes some of the challenges that may exist in Somalia that may make it more difficult to find sources. To me, the presumption of notability in NPOL means that the burden is to prove sources do not exist, instead of showing there are sufficient sources to keep an article. - Enos733 (talk) 03:33, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment: I think it passes WP:NPOL but we are unable to find source so I think that we should have to take help from any establish editor of Somali Wikipedia for finding sources in local libraries or in other language. ​​​​​​​𝐋𝐨𝐫𝐝𝐕𝐨𝐥𝐝𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐭𝟕𝟐𝟖🧙‍♂️Let's Talk !  04:29, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The source found by Curbon7 (and now in the article) shows that the subject did serve in the Somalia Parliament. - Enos733 (talk) 04:42, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
 * So it means that this person clearly passes NPOL. ​​​​​​​𝐋𝐨𝐫𝐝𝐕𝐨𝐥𝐝𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐭𝟕𝟐𝟖🧙‍♂️Let's Talk ! 06:25, 15 March 2023 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.