Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mohammed Omar (child detainee)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. slakr \ talk / 08:29, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Mohammed Omar (child detainee)

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WP:BLP1E - one of the 201 detainees who were released after being held at Guantanamo The Dissident Aggressor 21:01, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. &mdash;&thinsp;JJMC89&thinsp; (T·E·C) 01:41, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. &mdash;&thinsp;JJMC89&thinsp; (T·E·C) 01:41, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Pakistan-related deletion discussions. &mdash;&thinsp;JJMC89&thinsp; (T·E·C) 01:41, 12 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep in the absence of a suitable merge. Article is RS though scanty, not among the more notable detainees, but adds to the overall picture. There is another Mohammed Omar, which makes searching more difficult.Pincrete (talk) 17:24, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete Wikipedia is not a WP:SOAPBOX, also it's a violation of WP:BLP policy Kraxler (talk) 18:16, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Kraxler, just curious, but what is being 'soap-boxed' and how does it violate BLP?Pincrete (talk) 22:11, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * WP:BLPCRIME: " For relatively unknown people, editors must seriously consider not including material in any article suggesting that the person has committed, or is accused of committing, a crime unless a conviction is secured" here there's no conviction, just accusations. The article gives the impression, with blockquote and all, that the guy escaped punishment by the Americans, but was guilty as hell nevertheless, "Judgment by Journalist". Also, notability seems to have been established by having been detained by the US government which falls under WP:BLP!E. Also the title is "child detainee". Come on, 16 years-old is not a child. Also, ref 4 gives a message "forbidden", and refs 1 and 2 and 5 to 9 are dead. That leaves us with a single source, so it also fails WP:GNG. Kraxler (talk) 22:34, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I found nearly all the sources, though they are mostly from a single news source, I presume 'child det' is used to distinguish from his more notorious namesake. I didn't read the article as presuming guilt, more as presuming a rather foolish young man. 'Single event' would not necessarily apply to extended incarceration. I think it would be preferable if this article could merge, but there don't seem to be contenders. Thanks for the reply though. Pincrete (talk) 06:40, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Incarceration (for whatever time) without a conviction violates BLPCRIME; describing a living person as a fool violates BLP in general. Kraxler (talk) 12:43, 18 August 2015 (UTC)"
 * Re: BLPCrime, nowhere does the article suggest the subject DID commit any crime. Many of these detainees are notable precisely because of being detained/transported around the world without any credible reason for believing they had committed any crime. Neither the article nor I refer to the subject as 'a fool', the expression I used was 'a rather foolish young man', which, in the context of an AfD, has nothing to do with BLP. Pincrete (talk) 14:32, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The blockquote conveys the idea that the boy/man was certainly guilty and told lousy stories. You said that the article makes the subject look like a foolish young man, and that is a violation of BLP. As to AfD, notability can IMO not be established just by being foolish, or by being mistaken for foolish. Kraxler (talk) 15:04, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * BLPcrime is a 'serious consideration', not a rule, and it is clearly intended to protect the 'innocent' not the 'jailers'. 15 year olds aren't generally deemed notable for saying something foolish, but neither are they usually incarcerated for nearly 5 years for doing so. The notability lies in being locked up half-way across the world, apparently for no better reason than his fairly implausible story for his presence 'away from home'. There are several hundred WP articles on Guantanamo detainees, this is one of the less complete ones, a very significant percent of detainees were released without charge, conviction or reason ever being offered for detention, does BLPCrime apply to all those articles? I think the 'stubby' nature of this article would be better merged with a suitable parent, but I see no good reason to delete. Pincrete (talk) 15:39, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, Wikipedia is not the Amnesty International files, hence the WP:SOAPBOX. It's really a pity that the Bush administration trampled on the human rights in their futile attempt to show action against Terror, but the question is: Makes that this one particular person notable? IMO not under the present guidelines, lacking coverage, there's only a single source. Kraxler (talk) 16:40, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I think we agree that the number of sources is not great, searching is complicated by two other notable 'Mohammed Omar's' and many similar names. I was able to find this M Omar mentioned in a number of journals, but not able to read them, possibly they were mere lists. This primary source is his release document, published on nytimes site and elsewhere, which confirms much of the article content. I'm borderline as to whether notability is established, but disagree about BLP and soapbox, which is more a matter of style than content.Pincrete (talk) 18:03, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * This piece is from 'Spiegel', scroll down to 'Jihad Is When a Person Travels to another Country'.Pincrete (talk) 18:28, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Comment might there be 'non-English' sources? Pincrete (talk) 07:05, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America1000 01:30, 18 August 2015 (UTC)  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spirit of Eagle (talk) 03:28, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete - searching was tedious, but when you weed out the others with the same name, there is not enough about this particular individual to meet the notability criteria.  Onel 5969  TT me 19:17, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Delete not notable enough. There were other detainees too having stories covered by media. Umais Bin Sajjad (talk) 04:39, 3 September 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.