Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Moisés Baute


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   delete. j⚛e deckertalk 15:47, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

Moisés Baute

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Non-notable kickboxer does not meet WP:KICK Peter Rehse (talk) 08:59, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. Peter Rehse (talk) 08:59, 21 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep. He meets, since then he won a SUPERKOMBAT World Grand Prix!!! You all agreed SUPERKOMBAT is a top tier promotion, so please be fair PRehse, Wikipedia is not just for you! We can all agree SK is second in the world after Glory if not at least top 4 alongside Glory, K-1 and Legend. So still top tier. The last two aren't even hosting events consistently. Moreover, he is National Champion of Spain in boxing. He meets even boxing. Majjorca (talk) 12:08, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment SUPERKOMBAT is not top tier (and adding it in to WP:KICK as you just did without discussion is not good faith). For a kickboxer to become SUPERKOMBAT champion with relatively little experience tells me that it is not top tier.  National champion of Spain would just make WP:NBOX (Spain won a single medal at AIBA and therefore just sneaks in) but I can not find any reference to when he won the national championship and against who.  The reference provided is just a list of names and is very hazy (yes I read the article) as to what it was for.  Please find a single reference specifically to his winning the national championship (at the very minimum I want to know the year) and I will concede.  Usually a National Amateur champion would leave some sort of footprint such as competing in the Olympics but I could not find anything.  There are quite a few variations on his name so it is possible I missed it.Peter Rehse (talk) 12:42, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment SUPERKOMBAT is top tier without any discussion, it's not up to you to establish when people are talking on the forums like about being the second after GLORY. In worst case anywhere between #2 and #4 alongside K-1 and Legend, after Glory. If some don't agree like you but they must be objective. Even the user Master Sun Tzu told you that. I don't even need to prove the boxing criteria, though the source is stating clearly, 65 boxing champions of Spain were awarded. If you don't tolerate this and don't accept the thing that SK has become massive, it's clear to be you have something against this promotion. If it wasn't proven in 2011, since then they hosted events all over the world and launched top 10 kickboxers (even if they only were at some moment): Verhoeven, Zimmerman, Anderson Silva, Pereira, Londt, Zhuravlev, Lascenko, Adegbuyi or the Stoica brothers, and Gerges, Edwards, Samedov, Ignashov, Brestovac, Guidon, Kraus, Zambidis, Mo, Sapp and others fought in the SUPERKOMBAT. When Şahin Yakut won the 75MAX trophy in It's Showtime, he was also pretty limited as experience. Wayne Barrett in Glory, another less experienced fighter. It doesn't matter really, Baute is a former boxer who was in huge, tremendous form over the past months. Semi Finals & Final. Even if he will not progress well next, he earned his right to be on Wikipedia. WMC, ISKA, WAKO, WKN, WBC Muaythai and PKA are bodies not kickboxing organisations/promotions. All the ISKA champions suck in comparison with the SUPERKOMBAT champions. Leko at 50 years can become there, whilst in the SK he was on a long losing streak. It's Showtime is [here] and SUPERKOMBAT not. Shame, really. Normally we should have: 1st tier - promotions/bodies (GLORY, SUPERKOMBAT, K-1, Legend/WMC, ISKA, WAKO, WKN, WBC Muaythai, PKA and whatever), 2nd tier - promotions (FFC, Enfusion, Tatneft, Yokkao, etc). And even 2nd tiers to be considered, because they are really solid promotions. Equality to kickboxing please, same level quality as for the MMA! I expect more from a judo fan. Not to mention that SK is working with WAKO, and WAKO champions are average in the promotion. But yet again WAKO isn't a promotion. Before, it worked more with WKN. All WAKO, WKN & WKA are calling SK as major on their sites. Majjorca (talk) 15:24, 21 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment Subject doesn't meet WP:KICK and I can find no record of him at the AIBA website. I am withholding a vote to give the author a chance to source the boxing claim or otherwise show notability (besides unilaterally changing WP:KICK). Papaursa (talk) 19:09, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment I can find that he was senior champion of Spain in 2003 (and junior champion in 2002). And also that he was awarded in 2013 alongside other 64 champions of Spain in boxing, written by ABC a big Spanish newspaper. I can't find a source on the Spanish Boxing Federation website, because they only have 2012-2014 results. Regarding the WP:KICK, I think also the World Grand Prix events of major promotions (K-1, SUPERKOMBAT, etc) should be included, therefore also these tournaement championships not just the normal championships. Do you agree to reach a consensus, please? Majjorca (talk) 20:17, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Since WP:KICK consensus was recently agreed upon after a lengthy discussion, it's unlikely the rules will be changed suddenly just to suit you. His name appearing in a list of names at a locally sponsored event does not show that was an AIBA champion of Spain.  Even if he was, his claim of notability would be tenuous. Papaursa (talk) 19:28, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I also added a 2003 source, Papa! Majjorca (talk) 20:36, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you. The problem is that one of them talks about him going to fight in the national junior tournament in 2002 and the other talks about him coaching competitors for the 2003 tournament.  There is nothing to show he won the adult championship and that's important because junior or youth titles are not sufficient to show notability. Papaursa (talk) 19:56, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
 * He won the senior title in 2003. That's senior title, his first senior year. At 18 years, 85 kilograms. Andrés Baute Curbelo was a big hope of the country. In the Junior Championships he competed at the end of 2002, and also won gold but on 91 kg. You can ask him on FB if you don't believe me that he was senior boxing champion of Spain. The 2013 ceremony was only for Spanish senior champs. That's why it was in a big newspaper of Spain. Be careful about reading the article. Some more boxers are presented. In the 2002 one, more athletes won gold medals, in 2003 only Baute because it was a senior tournament, of higher level. Majjorca (talk) 21:08, 21 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment According to this, he was not the senior Spanish boxing champion in 2003 and therefore does not meet WP:NBOX. Papaursa (talk) 03:23, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment My fault then! What about 2007 and later? Majjorca (talk) 00:07, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Spain-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 13:35, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 13:35, 22 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete Based on what's been found so far he fails WP:NBOX and WP:KICK so he's not notable as a kickboxer or boxer.Mdtemp (talk) 18:20, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment Mdtemp, please, he doesn't fail WP:KICK. He won the a SUPERKOMBAT World Grand Prix Tournament Championship. Moreover, it was confirmed yesterday that he will face Andrei Stoica at Geneva for his super cruiserweight title in the promotion. per source Majjorca (talk) 00:07, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Would you please show me how he meets WP:KICK? Winning a Grand Prix tournament doesn't meet KICK.  As far as SUPERKOMBAT goes I have concerns about organizations that have world champions that haven't defended their title in 2 years and whose champions aren't ranked in the top 10.  Stoica is ranked #10 by Liverkick, so if Baute beats him I'd think there's a good chance he'd move into the top 10 and meet KICK.  Until then, if this article is deleted, I have no problems with you keeping a copy of it in your userspace.Mdtemp (talk) 18:15, 25 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete At this time he certainly appears to fail both WP:NBOX and WP:KICK. As I read WP:KICK even winning the Superkombat championship doesn't provide inherent notability, but it might provide enough of a boost to his ranking to meet KICK. In the meantime, I have no objection to this article being userfied (assuming the vote is to delete it, of course). Papaursa (talk) 22:28, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete fails both WP:NBOX and WP:KICK. --Bejnar (talk) 22:20, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.