Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Monika Lee


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. ‑Scottywong | gossip _ 18:30, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Monika Lee

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Blogs and the like for links. The Georgia Tech link is in their social media and not exactly RS as well. The gamezone is a very short blurb, Forbes isn't hardly a mention, and the rest seems the same. Lots of mentions. I'm pretty sure being an "award winning" cosplayer isn't enough to pass WP:GNG by itself. There is a fair amount of buzz around her, but buzz isn't notability, so I don't see how this passes WP:GNG. Dennis Brown &#124; 2¢ &#124; WER  19:18, 24 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep and improve, or possibly either merge/redirect (to list of cosplayers, which is currently pretty crappy basically listing only links some articles and not even this one) or incubate/userify if needed. No, it's not "social media". It's an article by Kristen Bailey a communications officer for 3 years 8 months at Georgia Institute of Technology's Institute Communications (where you can see her listed in "IMPORTANT CONTACTS" second only to Michael Hagearty, "Director, Campus Communications and Special Events"). And what can possibly get a cosplayer "to pass WP:GNG by itself"? --SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 07:56, 25 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete Closest claim to notability is appearing in a reality show, but not all reality show appearances give notability.John Pack Lambert (talk) 21:24, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment What makes a notable cosplayer, according to you? If "nothing", then it's not a good anwer. --SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 08:04, 25 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete as sadly no evidence of any notability, – Davey 2010 •  (talk)  23:51, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment What would bring an "evidence of any notability," in a case of a cosplayer, for your liking? Articles in cosplay magazines, maybe? I don't know, please tell. --SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 07:39, 25 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Georgia (U.S. state)-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:02, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:02, 25 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep - GNG is not N, but its pretty clear Monika Lee meets GNG because you have multiple non-trivial details including interviews and a TV show that focus on her. Many minor and reliable sources that give examples of her work, almost all of which are secondary and independent of the subject. This means it is presumed Monika Lee is notable and that because we can write a stand alone article of at least a few paragraphs - she does meet the requirements for inclusion. Its demeaning to say someone's profession or acts which generate year's long interest is not up to the bar for inclusion. Editors are reminded to check their personal baggage and beliefs and go on the very reason N and GNG were even made in the first place - To determine if Wikipedia can have and fill out a publicly useful article on a subject that is verifiable and credible. Its clear that the 28 sources in the article allow it to meet GNG and its a much better sourced article than many others because of its deep digging to try and sway this "cosplayers are notnotable" issue of Wikipedians. Look at it objectively and its clear that GNG was long since met. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 01:13, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
 * 28 mentions and blurbs in blogs isn't notable, and I have no personal baggage, as I think the whole cosplay thing is incredibly cool, but "award winning cosplayer" isn't automatically notable and she need multiple reliable sources with significant coverage, which doesn't exist. Dennis Brown &#124; 2¢ &#124;  WER  01:38, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
 * So being in a nationally broadcast TV series as a focus doesn't count for anything, not even halfsies? I understand the "game contestant" aspect, but many Survivor finalists and other select people from such series have their own articles because enough sources exist to write one. Meagan Marie from Game Informer - a major (if not one of the top) gaming magazines also noted Monika Lee and included a dedicated and detailed account of the process, I like to think that is more then "mentions and blurbs in blogs" because Marie was the Associate Editor of Game Informer who did interviews as part of her paid position. The King of the Nerds also highlighted that work as "the best cosplay ever" - which is a completely unrelated and well-recognized independent production within the culture. The Forbes blog note is small, but it highlights the work and doesn't conifer notability in this case - but I don't think anyone would. You have dozens of small ones and some higher ones like Comic Book Critic (not in article) and another one from Diamond Comic Distributors . Lee is not some random cosplayer and all the sources and unutilized sources still easily found show pretty clearly that it meets GNG. I don't care one bit about the Notability "minimum" from some guideline, we are talking pure General Notability Guidelines here - and its apparent that the bulk of these allow an article with no original research to be made. And that minimum is what Wikipedia's inclusion policies are meant to be based on - everything else is just CREEP. This reminds me of the months long and up-hill battle to get a multi-billion dollar success its own article... people just write off things that they deem of less "importance" - but it doesn't change the fact that this article informs people and all claims are well-backed as GNG articles require. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 02:06, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I get what you are saying, but a line has to be drawn and I just didn't how this passed it. Maybe in part because cosplay isn't as mainstream as some other forms of entertainment.  I actually did a lot of WP:BEFORE  on this, looking for the gold standard two, or even close, and checked every single source, honestly figuring she was notable (new page patrol, the back of the list).  I don't think that being on a reality show is enough to show notability, based on how most of the Big Brother and Survivor contestants don't have their own articles.  Some do because they get exposure afterwords for similar or different acts, but most don't.  But I can that others would disagree, so I just have to wait for consensus on it.  Dennis Brown &#124; 2¢ &#124;  WER  02:17, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Have you seen the show? This is not a contestant type, the show actually follows their life and production of the costumes and the different venues they compete in. Yaya Han has been active for over 12 years as a major focal point, niche as cosplay is, it is more than just a hobby for some. Of those on Cosplay Heroes, several of the cosplayers run their own businesses and they are professionally booked by those in the industry. I draw the line at being able to write 1000 or so words about a person with decent and independent sourcing outside of the "1E" type for such individuals. I much rather have a well-sourced article on a person of "questionable notability" in the eyes of many than no article at all. Currently, this article is probably the best representation of her work and history in a single place, but it is lacking in appropriate details given the threat its under. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 02:48, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Haven't seen the show, but I'm not much of a TV watcher. It is a Catch 22, but there is a fix, and I'm not against userification if it gets deleted.  As a matter of fact, I recommend it if someone is willing to take it on.  Maybe next year or next month it will pass, with a stronger source.  When I run across these articles, I just have to run it through my interpretation of what passes GNG, and if I think the community will delete, the I nominate.  It really is that simple and has nothing to do with the subject matter itself. I seek and post insanely cool cosplayer images on Facebook for family and friends, and if I was 30 years younger, might even get into it myself, but this isn't about what I think is cool or not. I need to see just a bit stronger and more independent sourcing to fit I try to make an objective standard here at Wikipedia. Dennis Brown &#124; 2¢ &#124;  WER  20:39, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete – Disapointing that "buzz" isn't enough to pass notability, but that is the policy. It would be good to recreate on down the line if she doesn't drop off the radar and proper sourcing can be found. But right now, as Dennis said, it just doesn't pass GNG. United States Man (talk) 04:55, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment Actually it's not. The word "buzz" (maybe that's "buzz" for BuzzFeed/King of the Nerds's "best cosplay ever" thing?) is nowhere to fuind at all at in neither Notability or (unmentioned here) Notability (people). Btw, it's funny when you read "Then the article may be kept and improved, merged, redirected, incubated, transwikied (copied to another Wikimedia project), renamed/moved to another title, transcluded into another article (or other page), userfied to a user subpage, or deleted per the deletion policy" (Articles for deletion) and then write things like "Delete ... It would be good to recreate". --SNAAAAKE!! (talk) 08:13, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.