Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Montreal Forest Development


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   keep. King of &hearts;   &diams;   &clubs;  &spades; 23:09, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Montreal Forest Development

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I cannot find anything significant referencing "Montreal Forest Development" or "Desarrollo Forestal Montreal". Is this the correct name? If not, the article should be recreated under the proper name. If this is the proper name, I don't see how it is notable. Tchaliburton (talk) 17:06, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

I will find proper reference on the national registry of Costa Rica's web page and will be adding such reference. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ggurdian1 (talk • contribs) 19:53, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

The property is registered under the number, Desarrollo Forestal Montreal   3-101-033166 in Costa Rica's national registry. Should I find more information? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ggurdian1 (talk • contribs) 13:40, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Caribbean-related deletion discussions.  — Frankie (talk) 15:41, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Environment-related deletion discussions.  — Frankie (talk) 15:41, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

I have added the following coordinates to the article which give exact location to the reserve. 10° 12′ 38.55″ N, 84° 6′ 56.99″ W Ggurdian1 • (talk


 * Delete. It is a sizeable area but there does not seem to be a lot of info about it. The greenie in me would want to keep it but without refs it does not deserve a WP article. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 21:31, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep sizable nature reserve are like geographic features: if there is evidence of real existence and location it's sufficient.  DGG ( talk ) 22:40, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
 * But the evidence of its existence is scant. Maybe out mate Mr NorthAmerica1000 can dig some out of the darker recesses of the internet. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 23:01, 28 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep per DGG. Sizable nature reserves are notable. Attempting to delete this, even given the current referencing, is a prejudicial assumption of non-notability when there's a whole pile of WP:BEFORE that wants looking at first. Andy Dingley (talk) 23:36, 28 April 2012 (UTC)


 * I would like to have it kept but it is not referenced at all. The ext links don't count - they are generic and in Spanish or are primary sources.. Also, google gives nothing. There may be some stuff in Spanish but if it is notable there should be at least some info in English. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 04:13, 29 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment - After some searching, not finding coverage in reliable sources yet. I've notified WikiProject Costa Rica about this article: link to notice. Here are some directory listings I have found thus far, obviously not to establish notability; perhaps others can find coverage vis-a-vis use of these links:
 * Legal notice: La Gaceta Digital (PDF), La Gaceta Diario Official
 * More notices: Google search, three pages
 * Directory listing: Mint Portal Bureau Van Dijk. This listing may be unrelated: this translates in Babel Fish as "Forest Development Montreal Anonymous Society". It's listed as located in San Jose, Costa Rica.
 * Directory listing: College of Agricultural Engineers, San Jose, Costa Rica.
 * — Northamerica1000(talk) 01:38, 30 April 2012 (UTC)


 * If Northamerica1000 cannot find decent info the article is doomed. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 21:18, 30 April 2012 (UTC)


 * ' Leaning merge to Braulio Carrillo National Park Comment - Is there a set guideline or policy page for geographic locations? I've looked before, but not finding anything other than:
 * Notability (Geographic locations) – A failed proposal
 * Notability (geography) – An essay, not official policy
 * – Per Wikipedia:Notability (geography) (I added the underline):

Named geographic features are usually considered notable. This includes mountains, lakes, streams, islands etc. The amount of sources and notability of the place are still important, however. If little information beyond statistics and coordinates is known to exist for a named geographic feature, there is probably not enough verifiable content for an article. Rather than deletion, these articles should be merged and redirected to a more general geographic article. For example, an article on a river island where there is no information available except the name and the location should probably redirect to the article on the river."
 * – The article/section title for a potential merge may need to be renamed. One option would be rename the article to "Forest Development Montreal" which is translated (roughly) from the Spanish "Desarrollo Forestal Montreal". This is similar to the article's current title. Another option is to rename it to "Desarrollo Forestal Montreal S.A.". Per the Tropical Cloud Forest website and links in my other post above, this is the registered name of the site/managing organization.


 * – A merge to Braulio Carrillo National Park may be a viable alternative to deletion, because the area is adjacent to Braulio Carrillo National Park, per the Tropical Cloud Forest website.


 * – Per the Tropical Cloud Forest website, the location's current area is slightly more than 592 hectares, which translates to 2.28572478 square miles. This is a sizable amount of land; many villages and towns are smaller in size, yet are included in the encyclopedia.
 * — Northamerica1000(talk) 02:43, 1 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment1 There is no formal guideline for geographic subjects because the process for adopting one in practice makes a small minority who objects to the proposal able to filibuster, until all the rational people willing to compromise give up entirely. the competing process is to make small wording changes that cumulatively reverse the effect of the guideline in the hope of their overall effect not being noticed . That's why the practical guidelines for notability are what we consistently do here at AfD, whatever that happens to be, Since IAR guarantees that no guideline can over-ride consensus over a particular issue, the effective guidelines are whatever have continuing consensus.

The practical guiding rule is that all named geographic areas have articles, and national level parks and similar are one type of them. We have consistently made articles on geographic features even if nothing can be established besides the identity and location, on the reasonable grounds that people will then add to them.
 * comment2 In the absence of a established English title, we use the title in the local language, rather than attempt our own translation, so we would use the Spanish title. A merge on the basis that it lies next to another area is an absurd principle. We could thus merge Westchester into the Bronx.  DGG ( talk ) 03:35, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
 *  DGG''' ( talk ) 03:35, 1 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep – Per WP:FIVEPILLARS, because Wikipedia functions as a gazetteer, and per Ignore all rules (also one of the five pillars), because it makes sense for all geographic areas to be covered in Wikipedia.
 * Per User:DGG's comment #2 directly above this post, I propose that the article is renamed to Desarrollo Forestal Montreal S.A. I've struck my "leaning merge" !vote above. Thanks User:DGG for the input regarding this matter. Unrelated sidenote: Bronxchester County???  Northamerica1000(talk) 06:13, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Hello, I have begun to change the name of the article to  Desarrollo Forestal Montreal S.A. as suggested by Northamerica1000  I agree to change the name of the article to its proper name. How should I do so? There have been some studies done by the Organization For Tropical Studies in the nineties I believe. I could try and find them if neccesary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ggurdian1 (talk • contribs) 07:11, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Regarding a name change: perhaps consider waiting until the discussion has ended; sometimes people get chapped when name changes occur during an ongoing AfD discussion. Feel free to add reliable sources to the article at any time, and to this discussion. Northamerica1000(talk) 07:30, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Struck part of my comment above. Being bold and renaming the article. Northamerica1000(talk) 07:35, 1 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment - The article has been renamed to: Desarrollo Forestal Montreal S.A. Northamerica1000(talk) 07:36, 1 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you Northamerica1000 I shall be fixing the species in "flora" in order to redirect them to the existing articles. Ggurdian1 (talk) 19:09, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.