Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Monumento ao Bombeiro


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was   no consensus. I have sympathy with Husond who lives in the city and testifies to the obscurity of the monument, but the little disussion between Sdrtirs and Tosqueira indicate the possibility of more sources at least. I have also noted with interest the note by Lechatjaune regarding a deletion discussion at the Portuguese Wikipedia, but that one appears to be turning towards "keep". I am removing the sentence about the monument being a major landmark, as its uncited, subjective, and probably not entirely true. This might be renominated at some point in the future, but with the sourcing issue still in motion, I'm letting this stay this time around. Sjakkalle (Check!)  13:43, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Monumento ao Bombeiro

 * ( [ delete] ) – (View AfD) (View log)

This is a self-made promotional page of dubious veracity. See: Articles for deletion/Carlos Botelho. Korax1214 (talk) 15:14, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep and Speed Clean-up. This article needs more work and not deletion. Zero Kitsune (talk) 16:36, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 *  Strong Keep - the current incarnation of the article seems not to be promotional or POV-pushing, it doesn't seem to violate policy IMO. -Toon05 16:48, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment Article was written (and its photograph supplied) by the sculptor, a guy called "Carlos Botelho" who (according to Articles for deletion/Carlos Botelho) has made several questionable edits attempting to cash-in on the fame of his famous namesake. In particular, no source has been given for the claim that this sculpture "is one of the main landmarks of Sintra".  (I attempted to visit the Sintra town website, but its extensive use of scripting made it unloadable on my copy of Firefox even after I added all its sources to my NoScript whitelist.)  This article was already (earlier today) speedied by another user for this reason. -- Korax1214 (talk) 18:11, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment - ok, it may have been created by the user, but it doesn't read as if it is pov-pushing. It could have just as easily been written by anyone else, and this is certainly not one of the worse articles on the encyclopaedia. -Toon05 19:44, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Strong delete - Self-promotion (created by the author himself) and WP:V (no independent reliable sources proves its notability). Tosqueira (talk) 19:36, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep - Independent reliable sources found. Tosqueira (talk) 09:02, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete -No mention on the website of the "junta" of the freguesia: and: . This monument is not that im´portant. Tosqueira (talk) 21:24, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment It may not be referenced or important to the Parish of Belas but it is referenced and important for the Municipality of Sintra.--Sdrtirs (talk) 19:08, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Portugal-related deletion discussions.   --  Fabrictramp  |  talk to me  21:03, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete unless notability can be established (third-party sources badly needed) -- Korax1214 (talk) 21:56, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete Clear self-promotion and non-notable monument. In Portugal alone there are thousands of other similarly undistinguished monuments placed on roundabouts. Mostly for decorative purposes. Hús  ö  nd  01:52, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete This article has been voted on wiki-pt (see pt:Wikipedia:Páginas para eliminar/Monumento ao Bombeiro) acording to that discussion, there are at least five other "monuments to firemen" in Portugal, none of them deserving note. There is no third-party sources availlable. Lechatjaune (talk) 23:26, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Just read that discussion (through the Googlefish) and it makes interesting reading. Thanks.  -- Korax1214 (talk) 15:27, 2 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment An IP (probably himself) has found some reliable sources:, and . But, it doesn't say anything about Bottelho. Tosqueira (talk) 09:01, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment The first two won't resolve for me (404 error, domain jf-belas.pt not found); the third (the Sintra town site), although it now loads (probably due to my having upgraded Firefox since I last tried it), is still painfully s-l-o-w for me (I suspect because it's ridiculously overburdened with scripting). The "Tourism and Culture / Museums and Monuments" pull-down menu has nothing about sculptures, only fountains.  Using the site search for "firemen" resulted only in pages about the emergency services; searching for "botelho" produced no results whatsoever.  Hence, I don't see how any of these three are "reliable sources", since from my end the first two aren't reliable (or even existant) and the third isn't a source. -- Korax1214 (talk) 14:01, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Note: all three now resolve for me, but they're in Portuguese. (Since this page is on the English Wikipedia, linking to English versions, if available, would be more appropriate.)  However, the illustrations in question are unmistakably of this monument (unless there's another somewhere else which is exactly similar in appearance, which is unlikely).


 * Comment I think the medail i found can give us clue of the author signed as C. Botelho or Bottelho as artistic name . Detail of the medail   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.22.30.16 (talk) 10:04, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep The monument was inaugurated by Ministry of Internal Administration's Secretary of State of Portugal, so it has importance to Portugal and to Wikipedia. Source: http://www.cm-sintra.pt/revistaartigo.aspx?ID=9 Official Municipal Chamber of Sintra website.--Sdrtirs (talk) 16:22, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment - It's on the magazine news of Municipal Chamber of Sintra. But it isn't notable since it's not even in the "monument section" of the website of Municipal Chamber of Sintra: .Tosqueira (talk) 19:54, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment That doesn't bring any particular notability, an inauguration by a secretary of state is really no big deal. Portugal has tens of secretaries of state and they inaugurate something every single day. Just like mayors and anyone else holding a political position do. No big deal really. Hús  ö  nd  00:23, 8 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment On the talk page, 213.22.30.16 has falsely alleged that this AfD is an act of "vandalism". From this, I can only assume that s/he is new to Wikipedia and has little knowledge of how things work here. -- Korax1214 (talk) 16:44, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete, not notable and the conflict issues. Darrenhusted (talk) 09:45, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep. Is not "a self-made promotional page".  Monuments don't edit.  "Is one of the main landmarks of Sintra".  Undoubtedly, it was made, and with reason.  The sources exist.  They just need to be found and added.  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 12:15, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * One of the main landmarks of Sintra?!? As a resident of Sintra, I almost take that as an insult. Hús  ö  nd  13:05, 8 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.