Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mother I'd Like To Fuck/Old nomination

This page is an archive of the discussion surrounding the proposed deletion of a page entitled Mother I'd Like To Fuck.

The result of the debate was to move the page to Wiktionary.

There are many other "offensive" words like fuck in Wiktipedia, including most of the sexual slang category. That the term is popular is reflected by its inclusion in Wiktionary. I would agree that it needs a little tidying up, but there's been no meanigful discussion on deletion of this entry since 2004.

I would welcome some new contributions on the matter (User:reillyd Tuesday 21 November 2006)


 * I nominated the article for deletion (here) and I'd say the discussion should take place there per wikipedia guidelines but I'll respond to your arguments as a courtesy as I realize you have been a large (and recent) contributor to this article. My original nomination had nothing to do with it's level of offensiveness or lack thereof (about which I couldn't care less, and which wikipedia institutionally is neutral about) but was based on three items:  WP:NEO, WP:NOT and WP:OR:
 * Avoid Neoligisms: This term may be popular (although to what extent is entirely unclear) but this is a recent and fluid pop culture phrase, not an objectively agreed upon piece of terminology that has been added to the language in the long term.
 * Wikipedia is not a dictionary: Self-explanatory, and the phrase's current inclusion in wiktionary reinforces the lack of need for this article here in terms of literal explanation of meaning.
 * No original research: This was the sticking point for me to be honest. The objective origin of the word is uncited (and therefore highly questionable) and otherwise the article is a list of examples, which therefore inherently could not conform to a neutral point of view and therefore have obviously been added not because any example is objectively a "MILF" but because an editor, on their own, has decided that said example is attractive (or whatever).  Without a source (e.g. "Maxim Magazine has listed these people as the top 10 MILFs in Hollywood:" or the like) one has to assume that editors simply decided those examples belonged under the heading.  In other words - original single-point decision making regarding criteria, significance and outcome.


 * I hope helps, please feel free to add your voice to the deletion-process discussion -Markeer 17:14, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I vote for the immediate deletion of this page. It has no rightful place in an encyclopedia accessible to children. This is an encyclopedia, not a pornopedia. The fringe element who want to know about such topics can always read Penthouse or any similar magazine, and there's (unfortunately) no shortage of such sites on the internet. Wikipedia should NOT, in my opinion, lower itself by accumulating trash which has no literary or educational value.

(David Cannon - Monday 19 January 2004, 11.03pm)

Just because this site refers to a taboo section of human sexuality, you seem to be labelling it as wrong. What is your problem? If it's the word "fuck", see the entire page on it, otherwise are you concerned that children may be able to learn about MILF? If that is such a major issue, should we remove articles on anal sex, bestiality and incest. Aswell as this, assuming Wikipedia contains no entry for MILF, someone may have to type MILF into a google search, which I'm guessing would provide very few sites dedicated to explaining the concept. As for the educational value, it is useful for someone who would like to understand what the term "MILF" means. Also I think it is very childish and most unfair to compare a serious article of text to a pornographic magazine. This article is here to educate someone who would like to know about MILF, Penthouse serves to titilate the "reader". SimonMayer 19 January 2004 20:24 (UTC)


 * Yes. Delete right away. Tannin 10:26, 19 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * I concur with Cannon. Delete. Pollinator 06:44, 20 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * It doesn't qualify under Candidates for speedy deletion Secretlondon 10:30, Jan 19, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete, not because it's overly offensive (there's an article on bukkake, fer dog's sake), but because it can't be more than a definition. &#8212; No-One Jones (talk) 10:40, 19 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * move to wiktionary, or place on a list or something, its no stand alone article. And this is too a pornopedia, look at the article on Bomis ;) Jack 10:44, 19 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete, but only because Wikipedia is not a slang dictionary, not because of potential offensiveness. --Delirium 11:02, Jan 19, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete for all the above reasons. DJ Clayworth 15:14, 19 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * Wiktionary seems like the right place. - UtherSRG 17:17, 19 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * Just because this site refers to a taboo section of human sexuality, you seem to be labelling it as wrong. What is your problem? If it's the word "fuck", see the entire page on it, otherwise are you concerned that children may be able to learn about MILF? If that is such a major issue, should we remove articles on anal sex, bestiality and incest. Aswell as this, assuming Wikipedia contains no entry for MILF, someone may have to type MILF into a google search, which I'm guessing would provide very few sites dedicated to explaining the concept.  As for the educational value, it is useful for someone who would like to understand what the term "MILF" means.  Also I think it is very childish and most unfair to compare a serious article of text to a pornographic magazine. This article is here to educate someone who would like to know about MILF, Penthouse serves to titilate the "reader".  However I believe the Wiktionary to be a good place.  SimonMayer 19 January 2004 20:27 (UTC)
 * I don't see any problem with the Mother I'd Like To Fuck page. Why you think it's offensive? It a 100% NPOV and encyclopedic article. Certainly keep the information contained in the article. However I have no problem to merge it with another similar article. Do we have any porn-slang article? If ys gimme the link and I will do the merge, and I will make Mother I'd Like To Fuck a redirect. This info could also be contained in some psychology article explaining the attraction to mature women etc. Please, don't let puritanism prevail in Wikipedia. Also, the usage of the term MILF is very common and widespread on the Internet and has become part of the porn sub-culture: God Google says MILF gets 5 million hits and the phrase "Mother I'd Like to F@@@" gets 26 thousand hits! So we certainly have to list this term in the encyclopedia, no matter whether we like it or not. Optim 22:05, 19 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Article contains no useful information.  If it did, I'd suggest that info be moved to the MILF page. Anthony DiPierro 03:22, 20 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep or move to Wiktionary--it's right on the borderline. Like it or not, this is a valid piece of American pop culture. P.S. added note on phrase's history.  I could see this turning into a valid article, with a discussion of a sexologist's view and explanation, etc.  Meelar 07:55, 20 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. Yes it is slang, but, similar to Hater, it is valid, and worth defining here. Kingturtle 08:27, 20 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * The word was invented by the scriptwriters of American Pie (movie). I vote that all three common variants (MILF, Mom I'd.. and Mother I'd...) redirect to a subsection of that article which explains that the phrase came from the movie and has become somewhat popular, particularly on the internet (i.e. some link-farmed porn websites appear to use it), despite orginially being meant in an ironic sense. To my mind we are doing our duty not excluding knowledge, but we are also not giving this rather giggly teenage boy phrase anymore coverage than it deserves. Pete/Pcb21 (talk) 13:15, 20 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * I agree with Pete/Pcb21's extremely sensible suggestion and reasoning. Bmills 14:33, 20 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * Agree with PCB21. Delete and merge.
 * Keep and expand or merge w/ American Pie. Not inherrantly any more offensive than other sexuality articles on Wikipedia.  This site isn't aimed specifically at children, so while protecting them is all good, in this case it's the responsibility of the parents, not us.  In addition, we try to discuss sexuality terms clinically here, not pornographically.  --zandperl 15:42, 20 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep, perhaps with modified title, and with a discussion of its origins and evolution. The abbreviation MILF is certainly no longer confined to porn but has become a common colloquialism on sites like fark.com simply to indicate an attractive woman who has given birth to children. The first time I encountered the abbreviation, I had no idea what the heck it meant and had to run a Google search. A page like this would have been exactly what I would have been hoping to find. It is the abbreviation MILF, however, that is the actual coin of the realm usage, not the full expression. In that sense, I think the page needs modifying in its title. Decumanus 16:46, 20 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * Move to MILF, keep for a while, and see whether it turns into a decent article. I agree that MILF is the term, Mothers etc. is only the explanation of the term. As for the whole offensiveness issue, this continues to need discussion, but do keep in mind that as Wikipedia is now organized, the page titles are not really very visible. People are not normally taken by surprise by a WIkipedia page. On the Internet as a whole, I believe there can be legitimate problems with people, genuinely innocently, search on a term such as "facials" (interestingly enough, Google turns up as high ranking hits on "facials" but not on "facial," good work Google!). This is much less likely to happen in Wikipedia. My main objection is that I think it's unlikely to ever become more than a dictionary entry. I just don't think there's much to say on the topic. IMHO initialism MILF itself does not rank very high on the taboo scale. Dpbsmith 18:04, 20 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete and move to Wiktionary. MILF is a word.  If this is a phenomenon that a genuine (non-definition) page can be written about, the page should have a different name.  There is nothing on this page worth keeping.  --Smack 00:50, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * Ditto. GTRMP
 * Second. If this word implies any sort of phenomena in the porno-industry, then we keep. Otherwise delete. For explanatory purposes, a wikitionary link can be put on Moro Islamic Liberation Front. Note that the see also links contain 2 commercial links: MILF hunter and MILF site. Google search showed that both are porno video sites. So the deletion is not merely eliminating unnecessary porno but also potential advertisements. &#22823;&#23558;&#20891;, &#37117;&#30563;&#20013;&#22806;&#35832;&#20891;&#20107; (talk) 08:50, 24 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. This is really useful for non-native speakers at least to me. It's really informative; I don't find anything wrong with the content which speaks truth -- Rrjanbiah 06:43, 24 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. I don't find anything wrong with the article. There are articles for fuck, motherfucker and the like, after all... Sabbut 08:47, 24 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * I still think that this article is useful and encyclopaedic. I still want to keep it. (if u count votes take care not to count me twice, I have voted above, too) Optim 10:25, 24 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * Clarification: I wouldn't have any problem with merging in another article and transferring the current article to Wiktionary. However, the meaning of the initialism MILF must be contained in Wikipedia, too. "Mother I'd Like To Fuck" must be a redirect to the article which contains what MILF means.
 * keep. it is a phenomena in the porno-industry. JDR
 * It isn't really viable to move to MILF, as MILF is a disambiguation page for both Mother I'd Like To Fuck and Moro Islamic Liberation Front. The sexual meaning of MILF can be found by clicking the Mother... link. SimonMayer 00:36, 25 Jan 2004 (UTC)