Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Moti Lake


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete.  JGHowes   talk  00:09, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

Moti Lake

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Not notable. Fails WP:GNG.  Harshil want to talk? 06:14, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Architecture-related deletion discussions.  Harshil want to talk? 06:14, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions.  Harshil want to talk? 06:14, 23 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep WP:GEOLAND applies. Mccapra (talk) 11:37, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
 * How Geoland applies here? It’s not disputed territory or any type of the legally recognised place. If you can see the source then it’s of district authority office and you’ll find no mention of it except name of village. Read WP:JUSTA.— Harshil want to talk? 11:56, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I think means the GEOLAND statement of "Named natural features are often notable, provided information beyond statistics and coordinates is known to exist. This includes mountains, lakes, streams, islands, etc." §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 15:13, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes thank you that’s what I meant. Mccapra (talk) 17:20, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
 * But clearly it’s not provided here. The lake is not famous to have significant coverage in books or news about its history or geography. — Harshil want to talk? 17:23, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
 * As a geographical feature it doesn’t need significant coverage. Many articles about lakes, reservoirs etc. on Wikipedia don’t. Mccapra (talk) 19:13, 23 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep. The lake exists, so the criteria listed on WP:GEOLAND apply. Utopes (talk) 01:00, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Keep. a geographical feature does not have to be famousto be notable, ; the assumption is that if it has sources for more than a map reference or a population figure, that it is notable . Thebasis for this is the statement  in the most fundamental of all our rules, WP:5,  that WP has some of the characteristics of a gazetteer.  DGG ( talk ) 09:12, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
 * here’s simple google search. Most of the results are of wiki mirror site. No references has been found about this lake. I’m resident of the near by place and just living 10 kms near and I even never heard it. If you can find it in any book then you can cite it here.— Harshil </i>want to talk? 09:35, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
 * , WP:OUTCOMES is interesting reading - it's a breakdown of typical outcomes of deletion discussions. WP:MAPOUTCOMES covers geographical features, and it's fairly widely accepted that articles about lakes are kept, even if they aren't notable in a GNG sort of way. I also think this is a keep, based on what I'm seeing at the article. Cheers Girth Summit <sub style="font-family:script;color:blue;"> (blether)  11:54, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Striking keep, explanatory comment below. Girth Summit <sub style="font-family:script;color:blue;"> (blether)  09:46, 25 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Keep per WP:GEOLAND. Andrew Base (talk) 12:46, 24 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete as the information in the article cannot be verified as expected in WP:V. I am not able to find any information about this lake (despite trying "Moti lake", "Moti talao", "Moti talav"). There are a bunch of other lakes in India with the same name. Other than Google maps, I don't see any mention of this lake. I suspect that the lake is not an officially named lake. I understand that many others are invoking WP:GEOLAND, however information has to be verifiable. If I cannot even verify the name of the lake, I don't see why Wikipedia should keep what could be a potentially incorrect article.--DreamLinker (talk) 18:09, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Exactly ! That’s what I was saying to the people who wrote keep. Here’re key points of WP:GEOLAND and here’s how it fails
 * Is any information about this lake is available in public domain? ❌
 * Are statistics even available with us? ❌
 * Is there any verifiable content available in books or newspapers? ❌
 * Do locals living near the place are aware of this lake? ❌
 * Do Google shows any result about the place and information in reliable sources? ❌
 * I think I should ping to reconsider their opinion here.— <i style="color:orange; font-family:Brush Script MT">Harshil </i>want to talk? 02:55, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Do Google shows any result about the place and information in reliable sources? ❌
 * I think I should ping to reconsider their opinion here.— <i style="color:orange; font-family:Brush Script MT">Harshil </i>want to talk? 02:55, 25 October 2019 (UTC)


 * I’m pinging as they’re residents of Gujarat and can have idea of notability of this place and comment well. In extra, pinging  as he commented on my consecutive AfDs in which articles were created by same createor. You can read the above comments to know more about issue. — <i style="color:orange; font-family:Brush Script MT">Harshil </i>want to talk? 03:33, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment If you follow the coordinates given in the article you can see the lake on Google maps. If you search for ‘Moti talav’ you’ll see pictures of it, (there are pics on Wikipedia Commons) plus 1, 2, 3 and plenty of others. Thanks. Mccapra (talk) 03:58, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I can just laugh at these search results. These are for Sawantwadi, Maharashtra not for Bhat, Gujarat for which article is nominated for deletion. If you can google then distance between them is 1042 kilometers which is more than distance between Chicago to NY. Please do proper search. -- <i style="color:orange; font-family:Brush Script MT">Harshil </i>want to talk? 04:07, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
 * ok that deserves a laugh. Mccapra (talk) 04:09, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
 * you should revise your vote then. -- <i style="color:orange; font-family:Brush Script MT">Harshil </i>want to talk? 04:22, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Well I’ve thought about that and decided not to. When I search for Moti Lake in Gujarat I get one passing mention in a research paper and not much else, but my keep !vote was not based on a misidentification of this lake with another - I only went and searched just now. My keep !vote was based on Wikipedia being a gazetteer of geographical features. I’ve spent many happy hours deorphaning articles about lakes of the same size as this in France and Germany. There are hundreds of them, and for most we have no more by way of sourcing than we have for Moti Lake. On this basis I’ve decided to leave my !vote as it is. Mccapra (talk) 04:36, 25 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete and information merged in village article. According to WP:GEOLAND, Named natural features are often notable, provided information beyond statistics and coordinates is known to exist. This includes... lakes... The number of known sources should be considered to ensure there is enough verifiable content for an encyclopedic article. If a Wikipedia article cannot be developed using known sources, information on the feature can instead be included in a more general article on local geography. I tried hard in English and local Gujarati language. Only information I can find is there is a reservoir lake (અનુશ્રવણ તળાવ) in Bhat village with size of 0.16 cubic and 2 metere depth Source: Ahmedabad district site No. 103 in list. In Google Maps, I can see two other lakes (one being tagged Vasdar Talav and other not tagged). The listed reservoir lake could any one of these three lakes. The person who created the article created many articles on Bhat village for each and every small feature of the village. There is also a serious chance that the lake does not have any name and the creator himself named it Moti lake. Or at best the people living near it calling it Moti lake. There no sources available for Moti lake and is unlikely to expand beyond a sentence in future. There is no point in keeping this article only because it is a lake. Regards,-Nizil (talk) 06:20, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Comment First, can I check whether you're familiar with the guidelines on canvassing? I'm not saying you've broken them with your pings above, since it could be argued that you pinged the people you did because they are known for their expertise in this field, which would be appropriate notification, I'm merely mentioning it in case it wasn't something you were aware of - pinging specific editors from deletion discussions is sometimes interpreted as an attempt to improperly affect the outcome of the discussion.
 * You'll see that I've struck my keep vote above, based on the arguments you've put forward, and on Nizil's comments above. I have not done an exhaustive search for sourcing myself, but based on what Nizil is saying the best option might be to Merge what content we can into an article about the region or area the lake is in, and redirect this title to that article. Users with better local knowledge than me would be better placed than I am to suggest which article that should be - Bhat seems like a possible candidate, a short line about this lake might be added to the 'Geography' section there, perhaps referenced to the research paper that identified (a passing reference should be enough to support an assertion that the lake exists). Cheers  Girth Summit <sub style="font-family:script;color:blue;"> (blether)  09:46, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Changing mind again per latest discussion
 * No, I know about canvassing and thus, I pinged three users who are living in near place like I am so that their opinion matters. And I pinged all of those first who voted here. And article you’ve linked is of community not of village. Best article is Bhat, Daskroi. — <i style="color:orange; font-family:Brush Script MT">Harshil </i>want to talk? 10:53, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
 * , OK, no probs - just wanted to make sure you were aware. You're much better placed than me to determine the best redirect target, I'll bow to your judgement there. Cheers Girth Summit <sub style="font-family:script;color:blue;"> (blether)  11:53, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't think I can support a merge/redirect because the name of the lake itself is unreferenced.--DreamLinker (talk) 18:46, 25 October 2019 (UTC)
 * , I think Mccapra said further up that they had found a source that mentioned it (albeit in passing) -, could you post a link to that so we can see whether it would support a merge? Girth Summit <sub style="font-family:script;color:blue;"> (blether)  17:10, 26 October 2019 (UTC)
 * here’s what Mccapra has to say for their source. Revisit convo. — <i style="color:orange; font-family:Brush Script MT">Harshil </i>want to talk? 17:42, 26 October 2019 (UTC)
 * , No, it was later in the conversation, they said it mentioned a Lake Moti in Ghujarat. It would be worth checking that. Girth Summit <sub style="font-family:script;color:blue;"> (blether)  17:46, 26 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Comment yes I found this (see page 4 just above figure 2) though on rereading it, although it’s in Gujarat, I’m not completely sure it’s the same place. Mccapra (talk) 02:01, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Again, I’ll mildly these time laugh at your search result.😁 Pavagadh is away from the place which is mentioned here. And the word “Moti Lake” literally means “Big lake” in Gujarati. So, Motu talav, Moti talav are in many villages of Gujarat. You should trust locals that no information about place is available. Regards,— <i style="color:orange; font-family:Brush Script MT">Harshil </i>want to talk? 02:21, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Ok well, if that source is also a dud, and we literally don't have any source that attests to the name even, then there's nothing to merge - striking the above. Girth Summit <sub style="font-family:script;color:blue;"> (blether)  20:31, 29 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Delete. A lake that is only verified to exist is NOT by default notable.  The province of Quebec has more than 500,000 lakes.  These all presumably can be seen in maps.  But we do not want articles for all of these, with merely location and name of lake information.  Here it sounds like the lake is relatively unknown even locally, and there do not exist sources to meet wp:GNG. --Doncram (talk) 23:58, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Delete. Fails WP:SIGCOV.4meter4 (talk) 19:11, 30 October 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.